Characteristics of Tagfish
 

What are some of the general qualities of a TAGfish?

I'd like to know to make sure I'm not one and exploit the ones who are [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

A few

Bad at hand reading

Uncreative and predictable

Poor adjusting skills

Too aggro, i.e fit or foldish

Too tight

Easy to tilt

Bad seat/table selection

Passive on the river


There are prolly a lot more

Not all of them are exploitable. But against tightish fit or fold guys you need to take a lot of shots on them. You should also 3-bet them liberally preflop until they adjust. Be careful with calling the river with A high vs a predictable uncreative guy if he 3 barrels. When they start tilting you should obviously pound on them.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

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Be careful with calling the river with A high vs a predictable uncreative guy if he 3 barrels.

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This is my #1. The TAGfish does not three-barrel.

Well Oink just about covered all of them. But I'll try.

Calls too many turns and folds way too many rivers against loose, bluffing players.

Complete inability to exploit fish, which is the only way to make money in poker. Stems from unwillingness to deviate from their starting hands chart. Further evidenced postflop by inability to ever take a shot at a fish.

Has an image so nitty that the biggest maniac in the world *only* folds when they bet. God forbid they raise.

So bad at value betting that you start to keep a mental tally of bets he has saved you by not betting the river.

Gives free cards at all the wrong times.

Horrible at identifying steal situations. Worse in execution.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

Good stuff.

I think passivity on the river is the deepest chink in my game right now.

My river AF is around 1.50. I don't bet/fold enough and find myself giving way too many free SDs to players who would've paid off.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

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My river AF is around 1.50. I don't bet/fold enough and find myself giving way too many free SDs to players who would've paid off.

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This is the first indication that I'm running bad, and consequently playing worse.

When I can't pull the trigger on the river, I'm starting to end my sessions since that means I'm reading hands like [censored].

But, when running good or playing well, it's magnificent to be reminded of the crap people will call down with.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

I know plnety of winning players with river AF's of around 1.5

Thats not a sign of you being too passive on the river.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

True, maybe it's a case of selective memory, remembering the times I should've bet.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

1.5 is actually fine, if you're much more aggressive it means you're not check/calling enough. Value comes not only from you betting, but also from him bluffing. If you only ever bet/fold everything, it becomes a very easy bet with air if you check the river. And maybe even shots at raising rivers. I see a lot of players who should learn to call: checking and/or calling can at times be superior to betting. I really feel that one of the few here who know when to call is Oink. Others only play to get their aggression numbers up as high as possible. You know, there's even another metagame reason: if you can get those numbers down your bluffs will be more succesful because you'll be read as passive. Similar things go on the turn, so that's an immediate indication of a flaw in your "tagfish": they are too aggressive and don't know how to call.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

LOL, when I'm playing bad my river AF is around 1.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

When I'm tagfish'ing (which I tend to do near the end of my sessions), I find myself not adjusting at all preflopwise. This means stuff like opening 76s OTB vs 2 loose passive blinds, 3 balling AJo vs utg raises from the nitty nits. And then you see a flop and are like "oh, that was kinda dumb"

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

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This means stuff like opening 76s OTB vs 2 loose passive blinds

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Why wouldnt you?

With loose passive bad players you want to loosen up OTB, not tighten up. This is a misperception you see a lot for some reason

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

Isn't the thinking (which I'm borrowing from HEPFAP), that you should just call more on the button against loose, bad players.

You have little if any edge to push w/ 76s, and you hardly fear a raise from the blinds. There is little value in trying to steal, since they never fold.

Now, if they are pushed around very easily postflop, then I understand. But if they're going to the river with any pair, then I don't see much value in raising.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

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There is little value in trying to steal, since they never fold.

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This is not true. Even loose passive fish will fold their SB to a steal quite a lot. A lot of 50/5 guys will fold their SB around 30-40%

I still think its a raise because you want folding equity - even if its slim and because you want SB out if possible.

But the points you make are valid.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

Here I'm assuming both blinds are bad.

I guess I prefer the implied odds of having two weak players in a hand, and I hold a strong multiway holding.

Bets are always best when my equity's 100%.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

If you don't raise you'll have a hard time representing that flopped ace on your c-bet... that combined with the times they do fold (don't be mistaken, if they fold you make a huge profit. You'll win 0.75 BB on a 76s hand, that's probably more than average, close to hands like KQ) makes raising a good play.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

Hrmm... It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not so why bloat the pot when you have to hit your hand?

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

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It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not

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No its not


First. You want to play your hand because you want to play hands in position vs morons. So limp or raise is better than fold, ok?

Second. Limp or fold?

- If you raise you will get it HU with nonzero probability and even win the pot outright sometimes.

- If you get the pot HU you will win UI on the flop or turn fairly often. If you dont win UI you can take free cards because you have initiative (yes they will sometimes donk)

- If you dont get the pot HU you are still in a good spot because of position. You can check the flop or the turn. You dont have to c-bet every flop. No reason to bet a QJ9 twotone flop for example.


Not raising 76s OTB vs two fish in the blinds is a terrible mistake IMO. I think that open limping is +EV, just not as much as open raising. And its not even close.

The best spot in LHE is you in a pot vs moron(s). You need to play a lot of hands preflop if you can get in that spot.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

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It seems like in this scenario it's going to showdown much more often than not

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No its not


First. You want to play your hand because you want to play hands in position vs morons. So limp or raise is better than fold, ok?

Second. Limp or fold?

- If you raise you will get it HU with nonzero probability and even win the pot outright sometimes.

- If you get the pot HU you will win UI on the flop or turn fairly often. If you dont win UI you can take free cards because you have initiative (yes they will sometimes donk)

- If you dont get the pot HU you are still in a good spot because of position. You can check the flop or the turn. You dont have to c-bet every flop. No reason to bet a QJ9 twotone flop for example.


Not raising 76s OTB vs two fish in the blinds is a terrible mistake IMO. I think that open limping is +EV, just not as much as open raising. And its not even close.

The best spot in LHE is you in a pot vs moron(s). You need to play a lot of hands preflop if you can get in that spot.

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Is this for the stakes you play? or for chumps like me too playing 1/2 and 2/4? I've been doing stuff like this, and I am unsure if it is +EV enough to beat the rake playing marginal hands like that.

Re: Characteristics of Tagfish
 

I think the rake needs to be rather high for folding preflop to be ok.


It cant really be said too much how important it is for you to attack the blinds when they are bad.

I will much rather play 76s OTB vs two fish than vs two strong LAG/TAGs even tho the latter will fold their blinds more often.

YOU WANT TO PLAY POTS vs BAD PLAYERS