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QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter
Button ($194) SB ($268.35) BB ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) Hero ($574.25) Reads: Villian is a good solid player and he's running 21.7/16.2/2.4 in 1200 combined hands from 200NL and 100NL. We play each other aggressively pre-flop w/ lots of 3-betting and such but we never get too crazy. The table at the time was playing very aggressively with tons of deep stacks and it was getting really fun. Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $26</font>, Hero calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $39</font>, Hero calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $95</font> Hero??? |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
i think i would raise the flop while my equity is still amazing vs his range
edit: i could be wrong easily though |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
liek call
Raising and calling the flop are both reasonable. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it.
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
Meh, I prefer playing for value with the pair of Qs so I just call the flop - no-one folds better there imo (at least not often). Call the turn, especially as you can still have the best hand sometimes.
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
[ QUOTE ]
Meh, I prefer playing for value with the pair of Qs so I just call the flop - no-one folds better there imo (at least not often). Call the turn, especially as you can still have the best hand sometimes. [/ QUOTE ] I think the flop call is pretty standard for reasons jay stated already. I'm pretty sure my hand is never best on the turn unless he has AKcc. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
As played I like a call, I think he pushes too often if you raise. Been playing online for a day so could be wrong?
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
Calling turn may not be bad because he could be 3betting light and the turn could have made him a FD and a SD of some sort. Folding the turn sounds crazy but it's not bad.
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter
Button ($194) SB ($268.35) BB ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) Hero ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $26</font>, Hero calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $39</font>, Hero calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $95</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $509.25</font> good? |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Button ($194) SB ($268.35) BB ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) Hero ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $26</font>, Hero calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $39</font>, Hero calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $95</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $509.25</font> good? [/ QUOTE ] yuck i think raising flop is ok, but i can see calling raising turn once your equity has halved the turn semi-blanks (he's not gonna give you credit for 64) and the pot is getting big is pretty bad imo |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it. [/ QUOTE ] raising flop makes life tough for AQ and KQs not AA and KK |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
if you were gonna push boss you'd be better off doing it on the flop. I'd just call the $95 as he could be double barreling and if he isn't we'll get the $241 left in his stack if we hit.
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it. [/ QUOTE ] raising flop makes life tough for AQ and KQs not AA and KK [/ QUOTE ] Indeed no one folds overpairs in a 3bet pot. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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[ QUOTE ] PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Button ($194) SB ($268.35) BB ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) Hero ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $26</font>, Hero calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $39</font>, Hero calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $95</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $509.25</font> good? [/ QUOTE ] yuck i think raising flop is ok, but i can see calling raising turn once your equity has halved the turn semi-blanks (he's not gonna give you credit for 64) and the pot is getting big is pretty bad imo [/ QUOTE ] ur stacking off w/ AA/KK here? |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Button ($194) SB ($268.35) BB ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) Hero ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BB raises to $26</font>, Hero calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $39</font>, Hero calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $95</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $509.25</font> good? [/ QUOTE ] yuck i think raising flop is ok, but i can see calling raising turn once your equity has halved the turn semi-blanks (he's not gonna give you credit for 64) and the pot is getting big is pretty bad imo [/ QUOTE ] ur stacking off w/ AA/KK here? [/ QUOTE ] i am, but i would also cr the turn or not donk the flop he's line looks kinda weird.... if he has air, you def. don't want to raise him |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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[ QUOTE ] Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it. [/ QUOTE ] raising flop makes life tough for AQ and KQs not AA and KK [/ QUOTE ] Well clearly he's not gonna fold flop with AA or KK, but if you raise the flop and fire again turn and possibly river he's gonna [censored] in his pants with AA. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it. [/ QUOTE ] raising flop makes life tough for AQ and KQs not AA and KK [/ QUOTE ] Well clearly he's not gonna fold flop with AA or KK, but if you raise the flop and fire again turn and possibly river he's gonna [censored] in his pants with AA. [/ QUOTE ] and call... if he calls a flop raise, the pot is gonna be huge on the turn, and he's not folding anything |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
You really think he's gonna stack off so easily with AA or KK for 200BBs here?
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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[ QUOTE ] Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it. [/ QUOTE ] raising flop makes life tough for AQ and KQs not AA and KK [/ QUOTE ] Raising turn makes life difficult for everything. It really looks like you flopped a set. I think OP's line is perfect. BALANCE [censored] |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
I like a raise on the flop (miniraise could be fun). If he 3 bets, insta push, if he flat call, check turn, cause you will be behind.
As played, a raise on the turn is very bad I think. I prefer a call/fold river UI. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Raising the flop makes his life very tough if he has AA or KK so I prefer it. [/ QUOTE ] raising flop makes life tough for AQ and KQs not AA and KK [/ QUOTE ] Raising turn makes life difficult for everything. It really looks like you flopped a set. I think OP's line is perfect. BALANCE [censored] [/ QUOTE ] OP's line does look scary but villain only has $240 left and the pot is $466 |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
keik i really didn't think he'd be double barreling air here which is why i decided to turn my hand into a semi-bluff. if i thought he would be double barreling then i would have called. i thought most of his range was AA/KK/AKcc/QQ/33/55 but with the sets being extremely unlikely seeing that I have a Q and he 3bet pre. I don't really float a ton in 3bet pots either.
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
Maths: Assume we have 14 clean outs (which I think is true basically always cause if we're dominated, he folds, sans the 1 combo of QQ)
EV = -$336 + 562(% he folds) + 14/44*$811*(% he calls) 0 = -$336 + 562x + 14/44*811*(1-x) 336 = 562x + 258 - 258x 336 = 304x + 258 78 = 304x ~0.25 = x = % he folds So if he folds > 1/4th of the time, WE PROFIT! And sure he's getting 3:1, but does he really want to put >1 buyin into the pot in this spot? (yes, I know it's only pot odds that matter, but when you consider the size of the pot then the fact that OP is willing to play for 2 buyins is clearly intimidating to his opponent, even w/ AA) And fwiw, I think that if you call here you're stacking him on the riv way less than you think you are when you hit, because a.) you're never getting to the river with hands capable of bluffing on this board b.) you aren't value betting worse than AA/KK if you're checked to |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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keik i really didn't think he'd be double barreling air here which is why i decided to turn my hand into a semi-bluff. if i thought he would be double barreling then i would have called. i thought most of his range was AA/KK/AKcc/QQ/33/55 but with the sets being extremely unlikely seeing that I have a Q and he 3bet pre. I don't really float a ton in 3bet pots either. [/ QUOTE ] but the only hand he folds there is AKcc.... and if he's frustrated he'll even call w/ that and really this would be a very odd line for AKcc |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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but the only hand he folds there is AKcc.... and if he's frustrated he'll even call w/ that and really this would be a very odd line for AKcc [/ QUOTE ] fwiw, I think villain calling with KK regardless of pot odds here is really, really bad and the only hand he should show up with with any frequency is AA, which can still be a fold. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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And fwiw, I think that if you call here you're stacking him on the riv way less than you think you are when you hit, because a.) you're never getting to the river with hands capable of bluffing on this board b.) you aren't value betting worse than AA/KK if you're checked to [/ QUOTE ] i agree that calling turn is awkward, which makes the whole hand awkward, but i'm fairly certain raising flop is better than raising turn because our FE is higher on the flop than the turn |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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[ QUOTE ] And fwiw, I think that if you call here you're stacking him on the riv way less than you think you are when you hit, because a.) you're never getting to the river with hands capable of bluffing on this board b.) you aren't value betting worse than AA/KK if you're checked to [/ QUOTE ] i agree that calling turn is awkward, which makes the whole hand awkward, but i'm fairly certain raising flop is better than raising turn because our FE is higher on the flop than the turn [/ QUOTE ] ??? can u explain y you think our FE is higher on the flop? |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
Raising flop is hot too. I guess I should have said that OP's line is perfect once he got to the turn that way, cause on the turn shove >>>>>>> call >>>>>>>>>>>> ; fold.
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] And fwiw, I think that if you call here you're stacking him on the riv way less than you think you are when you hit, because a.) you're never getting to the river with hands capable of bluffing on this board b.) you aren't value betting worse than AA/KK if you're checked to [/ QUOTE ] i agree that calling turn is awkward, which makes the whole hand awkward, but i'm fairly certain raising flop is better than raising turn because our FE is higher on the flop than the turn [/ QUOTE ] ??? can u explain y you think our FE is higher on the flop? [/ QUOTE ] cause the pot is smaller and your line looks scary like you're willing to play for stacks, which he may not want once villain donks twice and has close to 1/2 his stack in, the threat of "playing for stacks" is gone, since he's obv. ready to throw down, he's just not folding ime except if he's got no pair, or maybe something like KQ |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
EDIT: MISREAD HAND
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Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
Raising flop > Raising turn
And may it only be for a free card on the turn |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
What's strange about his donk donk line? Re-raise pre and lead twice? Seems pretty standard for "Hi I have a strong hand", which is what I expect him to show up with, but he can prob also fold it (and should).
[ QUOTE ] Raising flop > Raising turn And may it only be for a free card on the turn [/ QUOTE ] We can also shove turn for like $225 into $350 pot...kinda hot! Your hand looks a shitton like QQ/33/55! |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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i think putting villain on a range would be key here [/ QUOTE ] really? |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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What's strange about his donk donk line? Re-raise pre and lead twice? Seems pretty standard for "Hi I have a strong hand", which is what I expect him to show up with, but he can prob also fold it (and should). [ QUOTE ] Raising flop > Raising turn And may it only be for a free card on the turn [/ QUOTE ] We can also shove turn for like $225 into $350 pot...kinda hot! Your hand looks a shitton like QQ/33/55! [/ QUOTE ] WOOPS, I MISREAD THE HAND. I THOUGHT HERO PFRRED. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
READING COMPREHENSION FTW
ONLY TOOK LIKE 7 POSTS IN THIS THREAD TO FIGURE IT OUT |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
[ QUOTE ]
What's strange about his donk donk line? Re-raise pre and lead twice? Seems pretty standard for "Hi I have a strong hand", which is what I expect him to show up with, but he can prob also fold it (and should). [ QUOTE ] Raising flop > Raising turn And may it only be for a free card on the turn [/ QUOTE ] We can also shove turn for like $225 into $350 pot...kinda hot! Your hand looks a shitton like QQ/33/55! [/ QUOTE ] OK, yeah pushing turn makes more sense now that i realize villain pfrred i still think the diff. between pushing turn and calling turn isn't as big as you think |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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READING COMPREHENSION FTL ONLY TOOK LIKE 10 POSTS IN THIS THREAD TO FIGURE IT OUT [/ QUOTE ] FMP |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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READING COMPREHENSION FTW ONLY TOOK LIKE 7 POSTS IN THIS THREAD TO FIGURE IT OUT [/ QUOTE ] i'm pretty sure i only fold KK on my better days to a turn push from hero if i'm villain |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter
Button ($194) SB ($268.35) Hero ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) CO ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $26</font>, CO calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $39</font>, CO calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $95</font>, CO calls $95. River: ($321) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO puts Hero all-in for $241.45</font> What do we put CO on to do this on any of these rivers? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Button ($194) SB ($268.35) Hero ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) CO ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $26</font>, CO calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $39</font>, CO calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $95</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO puts Hero all-in $336.45</font> Yeah, that's fairly scary too, esp if we change our hand to KK. |
Re: QJs 200BB deep & I have the button
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Button ($194) SB ($268.35) Hero ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) CO ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $26</font>, CO calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $39</font>, CO calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $95</font>, CO calls $95. River: ($321) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">CO puts Hero all-in for $241.45</font> What do we put CO on to do this on any of these rivers? PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (6 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter Button ($194) SB ($268.35) Hero ($401.45) UTG ($336.05) MP ($478.60) CO ($574.25) Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to $6</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $26</font>, CO calls $20. Flop: ($53) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $39</font>, CO calls $39. Turn: ($131) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $95</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO puts Hero all-in $336.45</font> Yeah, that's fairly scary too, esp if we change our hand to KK. [/ QUOTE ] well yeah, the turn push is scarier than the river push, except w/ the rivered Q honestly this exact spot gives me quite a bit of trouble, so that's why i'm replying so much, and i'm not 100% sure on correct action |
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