I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

Canterbury Park 6/12

UTG and UTG+1 are typical loose passive. I don't know Villain from Adam, I've never seen him before and this is literally his first hand; he's posted in. My table image is laggy, but I don't think anyone is ever paying attention in this game.

Hero is on the button with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG raises, UTG+1 calls two bets, MP (Villain) three bets, HERO four bets (CP cap 5 bets), UTG and UTG+1 call, Villain caps, Hero calls, all call

Flop (10.75 BB)

5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

two checks, Villain bets, Hero calls (ewwww!), UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, Villain three bets, Hero...

I'm an idiot. I can't post the rest of the hand without screwing up some of the commentary. I'm not sure what to do in this spot. It felt and looked like Aces; I feel like I'm just supposed to cowboy up and lose money here. Does anyone just call in this here? Is it ever ok to just call the original flop bet with that "I'm up against Aces and I want to minimize my losses" feeling?

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

Raise flop infinity times. If the dealer says something about a cap tell him/her you want to go all in and pull your wallet out.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

lol strictly, why do you even bother to make a post like that

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

to OP--there's a lot of action going on here, some from a pf 3 and then 5 bettor, and some from another guy who obviously likes the flop. getting to a showdown cheaply and even potentially folding given certain turn cards/villain's actions are both well within the realm of possibility.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

I think fastplaying this on the flop is going to make this 100x easier than just calling in a multiway pot, especially with all the passives where they are. If you two bet that flop, you'll call a 3bet and just flatcall down.

I think folding on this board is worse than folding T7 in that other hand.

So basically. Raise the flop. I wouldn't 4bet now but just calling that flop bet is bad. The times you are ahead you risk getting drawn out on so much. Villain is also totally unknown. He also posted in MP so he isn't the nittiest of players.

Better?

Butter.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

i didn't say don't raise the flop; i just was saying that your glib statement of 'open your wallet and get all in' is not really very useful [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] given the action.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

Preflop is good of course.

I think just calling the flop with the intention of raising most turns was fine.

There is no way I'm folding. I'm ok with calling down. However, if you think raising the turn will protect your hand against the UTGs then I'm raising even if you think villian 3bets 100% of the time.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I feel like I'm just supposed to cowboy up and lose money here. Does anyone just call in this here? Is it ever ok to just call the original flop bet with that "I'm up against Aces and I want to minimize my losses" feeling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Your call on the flop was fine, but only because your plan should have been to raise the turn.

after WW3 breaks out on flop, or goal it to get to showdown cheaply.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

I'm not necessarily calling to raise the turn. At the time, I felt I was behind and even if I was ahead there are tons of ugly cards that could spike the turn. I'm mostly waiting to see if an Ace, Queen, Jack, 4, 6, or spade hits. And even then if I get a good turn card I'm still planning on just calling down. Is that necessarily so bad or am I always leaving money on the table?

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

Doesn't a raise only make sense to protect my hand? If I know that it won't protect my hand, which I'm pretty confident about, and I still think I'm behind aren't I better off waiting to see the turn with no plan and re-evaluating then?

If I can't protect my hand then the raise would have to be for value, right?

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

I think a raise might protect your hand against someone holding a lone ace, and thats why I would have been inclined to do it. Once I got check/3-bet (if that happened), I'd have called all bets on the flop and seen what the turn brought.

If I'm counting this up correctly, there are around 30 small bets in the pot and it's two more to you to call. You don't quite have odds to call for just the 2 kings, but the running spades help so I can't see possibly folding. Making it 4 bets seems bad as well, so I'd just call.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

You mentioned something there that might be useful: Having a Plan. Maybe try and think of a plan when you decide on a particluar action to take. Obv sometimes it is hard to always do it but something like: "If I am bet into on the flop I am going to call a bet and reevalute in the turn, or if I am bet into on the flop I am going to raise and call a 3 bet" etc.. Having a game plan is a good thing. Sometimes you are thrown a curve but having a plan does help me.

Since you don't know (MP)Adam's style(unknown)you can't imm. put him on AA or any other exact hand.

FLop-I like a raise here.

(Oh and BTW, your not an idiot).

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

belly up cowboy you are the meat in a sandwich!

when loose passive goes bonkers like UTG you are probably looking at aces. I'd probalby 3 bet the flop to see what UTG does. If he caps you are probably toast. As played i'd call and pray for K.

A spade on turn might keep me in since the pot is gigantic

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

One of the reasons I don't three bet on the flop, and I should have been more specific about this, is that Cannterbury's cap is 5, not 4, bets. If I three bet it's coming back around five bet and I'm trying to see the turn and re-evaluate as cheaply as possible.

I'm still not sure about this, but that's why I didn't three bet.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to see the turn and re-evaluate as cheaply as possible.


[/ QUOTE ]

depending on what the turn card is, you should not be looking to "re-evaluate cheaply." the pot is much too large to worry about saving bets. try to win it if possible.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
try to win it if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

By this you mean three bet the flop with the goal of protecting my hand, right? What if I can't protect my hand? If UTG and UTG+1 are going to call two more cold anyway, or UTG could four bet, then isn't that just spewing? I don't get it. Does having a read that they are not folding for two more back on the flop change your opinion at all?

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
try to win it if possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

By this you mean three bet the flop with the goal of protecting my hand, right? What if I can't protect my hand? If UTG and UTG+1 are going to call two more cold anyway, or UTG could four bet, then isn't that just spewing? I don't get it. Does having a read that they are not folding for two more back on the flop change your opinion at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

i never said anything about 3 betting the flop.

if the turn pairs a low card or is total garbage like an offsuit J and you have the opportunity to shut out the field with a turn raise, you must take it.

Re: I donkify KK in ginormous pot
 

Ok, thank you.