Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

What in hell happened at the River? Why did my crazy bluff raise work?

Table texture : I'd been running roughshod over the table, winning over 35BB. Showing down winners, and the table was a bit spooked, I think. Most were passive.

Poker Stars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $16
HERO: $94.50
MP1: $39.50
MP2: $42.25
CO: $16
Button: $93.50
SB: $64
BB: $24

Pre-flop: (8 players) HERO is UTG+1 with 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, HERO calls, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds, HERO calls.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (7SB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">HERO bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#cc0000">HERO 3-bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8BB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">HERO bets</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises</font>, HERO calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises</font>, SB folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to HERO.

Results:
Final pot: 14BB

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

Nicely done. It worked because hardly anyone is going to be bluffing in that spot.

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

I did it out of sheer desperation while drooling over the size of the pot. I've never River bluff raised before, and at these limits few would muck. But the size of the pot made it worth a shot.

Do other players bluff raise at the river on a regular, but selective basis?

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

You probably had the best hand.

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

[ QUOTE ]
You probably had the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

I was going to stay out of this, but I like the bet and now you guys seem to be disparaging it! SB might have folded a pair of kings or aces, or even two low pair.

Buzz

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

I think the SB was on a flush draw, and put Hero on Nut Lo draw. HU he decided to semi-bluff raise the turn, to set up his river bluff if he missed. Then he folded (with or without pair K's or Q's) because there's 3-str8 on board and didn't think he'd be raised by someone without the nuts.

If he did have AA or a K, then his river bet was a mistake, he ought to have check/call, trying to induce a bluff in a large pot.

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

I can't see SB with Aces or Kings. He had a great opportunity to reraise preflop to get HU and it didn't happen.

My best guess is A3 with heart flush draw.

My second best guess is two pair JQ with A3/A4.

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

SB had a nut low draw/nut flush draw (Ah2h or As2s), raised the turn to build a pot, and then bluffed at the river?

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

I think so too - busted draw, semi bluff turn, bluffed river and got re-raised by some donkey who was running over the table.

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

Grandma - As Howmany and Gobias have implied, you pick off a bluff by calling. You don't gain anything by over-bluffing a bluff (because the bluff is simply going to fold to the raise). And you get your butt kicked if Villain was actually somehow betting the nuts.

The only way you gain by bluffing on the river is if Villain is induced to fold a non-nut hand that is better than yours. And there are various non-nut hands that Villain might have bet for value that become very scary when Hero raises. The examples I (too hastily) chose, AAXY and KXYZ, were probably poor examples.

Two pairs without one of them being top pair is a better example, maybe even something like A238 with spades. Considering the action, Villain might bet that hand on the river and then be bullied out of the pot by the raise. And that possibility is what makes me like the river raise.

Buzz

Re: Insane River Bluff Raise worked
 

But Buzz, a 'bluff' is really a bet where a player doesn't want to be called.

If you put someone on a bluff, and you have a hand that's likely to win a showdown you call.

If you don't have a hand that's likely to win the showdown, then representing the Nuts to the bluffer and raising is stronger play.

You must also therefore raise with the nuts, but also hands that are likely to win when called, but you could safely throw away to 3 bets.

Bet/fold with two pair, is a horrible mistake, if he's going to fold the river, the right time to fold was on the flop to the likely Nut Lo draw semi-bluff.