Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

I know this is somewhat political but this seems to be the place for tax discussion so move it if necessary.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story...710&page=1


[ QUOTE ]
Obama's idea, which he described on the op-ed page of Friday's Quad City Times as being "one possible option" and not a formal plan, would raise more than $1 trillion over 10 years by subjecting income of more than $97,000 to a 12.4 percent tax. Half of the tax would be paid by employees and half would be paid by employers.


Obama is floating the idea of a tax hike on the rich as a way of assuring lower- and middle-income voters that he sees an option for ensuring Social Security's solvency that would not burden them.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is a big deal for all poker players because we don't have an employer to pay the other half of that 12+% and would be paying a flat 12% SS tax on all income with no cap. A plan like this would create a much larger tax burden for poker players or any other self employed individuals.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a big deal for all poker players.. poltics.. politics.. politics..

[/ QUOTE ]
...because all poker players make and report more than 97k per year.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

What this guy doing is essentially raising tax on the poor people too, what do you think the business and the rich will do after their money gets cut? They will raise product price and/or lower wages.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

I am now much less interested in Barack Obama becoming president than I was before.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am now much less interested in Barack Obama becoming president than I was before.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
My interest in Barack Obama becoming president has remained equal (i.e. 0%)

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

The social security program has a huge chunk of money coming out of every American's paycheck and matched by the employer and has been a giant failure. The solution, throw more money at it.

Wow, this is another example of government thinking Americans can not make decisions for themselves. The program is so good that government employees do not take part in it, they are smart enough I guess [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Employers are struggling mightily with rising health care cost, a slowing economy, and this guy just wants to add more obstacles.

NOTE: I do not make more the $97,000 per year.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
The social security program has a huge chunk of money coming out of every American's paycheck and matched by the employer and has been a giant failure. The solution, throw more money at it.

Wow, this is another example of government thinking Americans can not make decisions for themselves. The program is so good that government employees do not take part in it, they are smart enough I guess [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

Employers are struggling mightily with rising health care cost, a slowing economy, and this guy just wants to add more obstacles.

NOTE: I do not make more the $97,000 per year.

[/ QUOTE ]


The SS was set up as a simple saftey net, but totaly mismanaged by Congress. The age of 65 was set up originally as 1/2 of the people paying in would never live that long. Then the pile of money to make future payments got so big and congress either didn't understand economics or simply didn't care and started passing out the gravy until the gravy pot was empty.

These fools in the past knew that older people, over 45 register and vote in some age brackets twice as frequently as the younger voters. Live by the older voters "destroy" the SS system by them. Take Ida Mae Fuller. She used to be prominently displayed on SS's website as a sucess story.

She was the woman who received the very first monthly SS check. She paid in a total of less than $25.00 her first check was almost that much and over her life time she collected over $250,000.00!

SS is completly broke but something of a promise to the American people. Hearing the Obam a Dem's solution is to tax the rich to cover the elderly rich dosen't surprise me one bit. The AARP are single issue voters and whores for the SS system. It is pretty much F the grandkids over there.

Poker and or gambling taxes will never make SS solvent, well unless we paid all the recipents in FT cash and make them clear a portion of it as a bonus!!! Then we'd make them work for it rather than simply get it to exist.

Giving Congress more money even to try and solve something is never a good idea. Even the worst donk seems to have better bankroll skill..

D$d

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
What this guy doing is essentially raising tax on the poor people too, what do you think the business and the rich will do after their money gets cut? They will raise product price and/or lower wages.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is why I hate [censored] conservatives. Bush put in tax cuts and Bush before him as well did wages increase and prices decrease when they did this? Price of crap is dependant on the demand of that crap and cost to make that crap. Wages are dependant on the supply and demand of labor.
With that said wow this would suck. But hey we sit on our asses, make our own hours, and make more money then like 90% of people out there who havent inherited a buusiness from mommy and daddy. Plus lets be serious there is no way Obama is gettin elected Louisiana is far from an isolated case.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

From what I can see, this is nothing more than eliminating the income cap above which SS taxes are not paid, which is 97k, coincidentally (or very close to it). That is, you pay SS taxes on every dollar you earn up to 97k, after which, you stop paying SS taxes. Why should there even be an income cap?? That is an arbitrary ceiling and not fair, considering that the wealthy can still collect SS themselves.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
From what I can see, this is nothing more than eliminating the income cap above which SS taxes are not paid, which is 97k, coincidentally (or very close to it). That is, you pay SS taxes on every dollar you earn up to 97k, after which, you stop paying SS taxes. Why should there even be an income cap?? That is an arbitrary ceiling and not fair, considering that the wealthy can still collect SS themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think SS should pay out millions to wealthy contributors as well? The reason for the cap is that it was never intended to be a welfare program. Benefits are supposed to have some correlation to contributions. I could see paying double now if I can get double later, but that's not Obama's plan.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

Does this thread really belong in here?

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does this thread really belong in here?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. It was started with the best of intentions, I think, but it seems more suited for Politics.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

SS taxes are paid only on wages, not all income. From what I understand, gambling winnings are income, but they are not wages, and you do not have to pay SS tax on them. Gambling winnings don't make you eligible to collect SS either, so I don't know why they would require paying into that system.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]

SS taxes are paid only on wages, not all income. From what I understand, gambling winnings are income, but they are not wages, and you do not have to pay SS tax on them. Gambling winnings don't make you eligible to collect SS either, so I don't know why they would require paying into that system.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have to pay it as part of the SE tax if filing as a professional.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
From what I can see, this is nothing more than eliminating the income cap above which SS taxes are not paid, which is 97k, coincidentally (or very close to it). That is, you pay SS taxes on every dollar you earn up to 97k, after which, you stop paying SS taxes. Why should there even be an income cap?? That is an arbitrary ceiling and not fair, considering that the wealthy can still collect SS themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you think SS should pay out millions to wealthy contributors as well? The reason for the cap is that it was never intended to be a welfare program. Benefits are supposed to have some correlation to contributions. I could see paying double now if I can get double later, but that's not Obama's plan.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well if you do the right thing and actually save enough for your own retirement and in the process pay for quite a few other's retirements you get taxed on your SS income.

http://www.fool.com/taxes/2002/taxes020315.htm

Comming and going,


D$D

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]

Well if you do the right thing and actually save enough for your own retirement and in the process pay for quite a few other's retirements you get taxed on your SS income.

http://www.fool.com/taxes/2002/taxes020315.htm

Comming and going,


D$D

[/ QUOTE ]

True. To clarify, I don't wish to pay extra to get extra to get extra. I'd much rather opt out of the whole system. Too bad that the government thinks they own ALL of our income, to the point where people say it's "unfair" that we "get" to keep some of our own money.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

It's kind of sad that I have both 401(K) and Social security is taken out of my paycheck since the 13% between me and my employer I may never see. It is just a giant pyramid scheme.

Yes I am mad about the system itself, but tons more that the ones who decide the rules are too good to take part themselves.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Does this thread really belong in here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not really, but I'll leave it here unless it gets unruley.

I generally love political discussion, just not on the politics board.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

Well, Obama lost my vote. I haven't really researched candidates up to this point but I felt he was the best on early impressions.

I pay such a sick amount in taxes thanks to the SS charge as is.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

In America, self employ probably has to pay over 50% for tax when everything included, which is #$#$ suck out the $%#$ sick.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Well, Obama lost my vote. I haven't really researched candidates up to this point but I felt he was the best on early impressions.

I pay such a sick amount in taxes thanks to the SS charge as is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this would cost me less than an outright, enforceable ban. Still, Obama has not come out for us, so he's off my list.

On the broader questions of taxation, some here say we should negotiate better taxation for gaming income along with any legalization bill. Unfortunately, aside from Ron Paul, the politicians for our position are not likely to give us (or anyone) a tax break (Frank, Wexler, Berkley, Carson, etc.). They are fine folks, but tax cutting really isn't their forte. Perhaps we could get some deal that shifts some of the burden from players to the companies, but even that is hard to see.

This is one more reason to try to make this bipartisan (the other being that we need all the support we can get). Please continue to solicit the support of Republicans as well as Democrats.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, Obama lost my vote. I haven't really researched candidates up to this point but I felt he was the best on early impressions.

I pay such a sick amount in taxes thanks to the SS charge as is.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess this would cost me less than an outright, enforceable ban. Still, Obama has not come out for us, so he's off my list.

On the broader questions of taxation, some here say we should negotiate better taxation for gaming income along with any legalization bill. Unfortunately, aside from Ron Paul, the politicians for our position are not likely to give us (or anyone) a tax break (Frank, Wexler, Berkley, Carson, etc.). They are fine folks, but tax cutting really isn't their forte. Perhaps we could get some deal that shifts some of the burden from players to the companies, but even that is hard to see.

This is one more reason to try to make this bipartisan (the other being that we need all the support we can get). Please continue to solicit the support of Republicans as well as Democrats.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm all for bi-partisan support, but I think it is unfair (not to mention untrue) that Democrats won't be helpful to us in terms of taxation. Specifically, the more progressive wing of the Democratic party is strongly in favor of altering the social security tax (IMO for the better) because it is regressive and they feel it penalizes small businesses. So for pros like me who make less than the cap (I think it's 97k) it would be very beneficial to have a progressive Democrat in the White House.

PS I'm not a Democrat.
PPS I don't know where most of the specific Dem. candidates stand on this issue.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]

I'm all for bi-partisan support, but I think it is unfair (not to mention untrue) that Democrats won't be helpful to us in terms of taxation. Specifically, the more progressive wing of the Democratic party is strongly in favor of altering the social security tax (IMO for the better) because it is regressive and they feel it penalizes small businesses. So for pros like me who make less than the cap (I think it's 97k) it would be very beneficial to have a progressive Democrat in the White House.

PS I'm not a Democrat.
PPS I don't know where most of the specific Dem. candidates stand on this issue.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess we'll see what happens. First of all, I didn't say NO Democrat would lower our taxes. Rather, I listed four folks who are with us who aren't known for tax cutting. Democrats have clearly been better for our right to play than Republicans. We need to keep trying for bipartisanship, IMHO.

Also, I don't see how raising the SS tax on others helps you. This doesn't lower your taxes....it merely raises someone else's. I also don't agree that it's regressive; payments are tied to benefits. Perhaps we should try to figure out how to get the government to spend less, rather than having them try to figure out how to best confiscate our money.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

I've been up all night so this probably won't come out as clear as it should, but I'll try to respond piece by piece.

[ QUOTE ]
listed four folks who are with us who aren't known for tax cutting

[/ QUOTE ]

I was under the impression that Frank was for altering the social security tax to make it progressive or flat, although I could be wrong. As far as I know the others haven't stated a position on the matter.

[ QUOTE ]
We need to keep trying for bipartisanship.

[/ QUOTE ] I agree. I'm just saying that your post implies that we should aim for Republican support, in part, because they are better on the issue of social security taxes. My post was meant simply to show that, while we should aim for Republican support, changing the structure of the social security tax is not strictly (and with the exception of Paul it's closer to "not at all")the domain of Republicans.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I don't see how raising the SS tax on others helps you. This doesn't lower your taxes....it merely raises someone else's.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the social security tax is made flat and the cap is eliminated, they can lower the % taxed and still take in the same amount of money. So for anyone making less than the cap they would pay less. This is what progressive Dems. mean when they talk about changing the social security tax.

[ QUOTE ]
I also don't agree that it's regressive; payments are tied to benefits

[/ QUOTE ]

This is something that I strongly disagree with and fwiw is something I've never heard a non-libertarian profess, but we should probably save this argument for a better time and place.

[ QUOTE ]
Perhaps we should try to figure out how to get the government to spend less, rather than having them try to figure out how to best confiscate our money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps we should keep the focus entirely on poker issues and away from politically charged issues like how the government should spend money. The issue of social security taxes is borderline b/c of how it effects poker pros more than others, but it's probably best if we (and I include myself here) keep this sort of discussion to a minimum. And when we do discuss it using loaded words like "confiscate" instead of "tax" won't help build consensus.

I probably am coming across more harshly than I mean too here. I appreciate the work that you and everyone has done around here. Let's keep the focus on poker and get this [censored] legal! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

I am self-employed; I know all about the horrors of the self employment tax. I do not (usually) make near 97K a year, however, so Obama's plan affects me not at all and seems to insure some future viability for the whole SocSec program.

If it were even possible politically to talk about some new system other than SocSec (go to the politics forum) then I might open up. Since that aint gonna happen, having the rich(er) pay more is the tried and true alternative for me. I still like Obama (he plays poker you know).

Skallagrim

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

how bout we just accept the fact that social security is dying a slow death and slowly phase it out, it's not like the american people aren't used to constant letdown anyways

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
I've been up all night so this probably won't come out as clear as it should, but I'll try to respond piece by piece....

[/ QUOTE ]

You wrote it very well. Thanks for the reply. I should start by saying all the stuff I do for poker advocacy is poker only, and I'd never change my Obama rating based on a non-poker issue like this. Again, to me, a total, enforced ban is the same as a 100% tax...Obama's is lower than that.

[ QUOTE ]
I was under the impression that Frank was for altering the social security tax to make it progressive or flat, although I could be wrong. As far as I know the others haven't stated a position on the matter.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he lowered the SS tax for lower earners, that would indeed be a tax cut for some. I've not heard of such a proposal. All I've heard is keeping the current rate but removing the cap. If someone did seriously propose something that makes it progressive, that would be a completely different discussion.

[ QUOTE ]
If the social security tax is made flat and the cap is eliminated, they can lower the % taxed and still take in the same amount of money. So for anyone making less than the cap they would pay less. This is what progressive Dems. mean when they talk about changing the social security tax.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may want to check that out further. They've been talking about keeping it solvent by collecting more money, not by redistributing the tax burden.

This is an interesting topic, but I think it's too far removed from poker legislation to matter to our cause.

[ QUOTE ]
I probably am coming across more harshly than I mean too here. I appreciate the work that you and everyone has done around here. Let's keep the focus on poker and get this [censored] legal!

[/ QUOTE ]

You came across fine. Thanks for the compliment! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

So, Obama wants to raise social security taxes, Hillary wants to force people to buy insurance, Thompson wants to pander the religious right, McCain wants to ban gambling and get the federal government more involved in professional sports, and Guiliani wants to expand the power of law enforcement.

Why can't there be a viable candidate that doesn't support something that will make my life more difficult?

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]


Why can't there be a viable candidate that doesn't support something that will make my life more difficult?

[/ QUOTE ]

Well there hasn't been a politician in over 100 years that understood you could actually get votes without promising to take something from someone to pay for their pandering pet projects.

Heck even the tax cut republicans were told they were taking from the treasury.

Smaller government means less freebies and there aren't enought of us willing to get our own share to make a difference anymore.

IMPO!


D$D

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

Well thankfully he has no shot in hell

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

I agree this is a dumbass idea, but I think it's probably better than just letting SS go busto, which seems to be the plan of all the other candidates. Oh wait, the plan of all the other candidates is to "save social security", which never includes what they are going to actually do about it.
The alternatives of cutting benefits or raising the minimum age to collect SS are going to be less popular with the electorate than raising taxes on the rich (since the majority of people make <97k and the vast majority of them don't understand that most of the cost will just be passed down to them anyway) and so there you have it.

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

You all think tax laws are bad for poker players now? Check this out:

www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=393

[ QUOTE ]
In the spring of 1998, working with the American Gaming Association (AGA), the casino gambling lobby, Sen. Lott and Sen. McConnell prevented Senate debate on an amendment by Sen. Dan Coats that would have eliminated a federal tax deduction for gambling losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
You all think tax laws are bad for poker players now? Check this out:

www.citizen.org/pressroom/release.cfm?ID=393

[ QUOTE ]
In the spring of 1998, working with the American Gaming Association (AGA), the casino gambling lobby, Sen. Lott and Sen. McConnell prevented Senate debate on an amendment by Sen. Dan Coats that would have eliminated a federal tax deduction for gambling losses.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the law on Illinois state taxes. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Obama in favor of raising social security taxes
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, this is another example of government thinking Americans can not make decisions for themselves.


[/ QUOTE ]

If they could, would you make $ playing poker?