25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

I noticed this guy had won 3 of 9 showdowns so far and had an af of about 2.3. Based on the preflop action, QQ or KK seemed the most likely.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 9 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $24.15
BB: $17.85
Hero (UTG): $42.05
UTG+1: $28.45
MP1: $24.75
MP2: $40.85
MP3: $4.75
CO: $23.80
BTN: $22.85

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9 Players)
<font color="red">Hero raises to $0.85</font>, 2 folds, <font color="red">MP2 raises to $3.00</font>, 5 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $7.00</font>, MP2 calls $4.00

Flop: ($14.35) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $7.00</font>, <font color="red">MP2 raises all-in to $33.85</font>, Hero calls $26.85

Turn: ($82.05) K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($82.05) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $82.05 ($3 Rake)

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

standard, sorry you lost.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

how do ya know I lost? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

I guess it's pretty obvious given the turn and river, heh.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Because it's standard and it got posted.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

I'm not as experienced as some people and wasn't sure whether calling a deep-stacked shove on the flop with one pair was standard or not.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

In a 4bet preflop pot it's pretty standard. If the flop came K,Q,J I might lay down aces.

I am amazed if you won this pot. The only thing I can possibly see is a split or you found a complete idiot that stacked off with 66 like I did last night.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Yeah, of course. The best I could hope for was a tie with AA. But that's due to the turn and river, not the fact that I posted a standard hand. When I asked 'how'd you know I lost' I was just thinking about the flop decision and forgot I'd kept the turn and river in my post. Cheers.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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I'm not as experienced as some people and wasn't sure whether calling a deep-stacked shove on the flop with one pair was standard or not.

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you have 2 pair

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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I'm not as experienced as some people and wasn't sure whether calling a deep-stacked shove on the flop with one pair was standard or not.

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you have 2 pair

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You know what I meant. The pair of jacks are everyone's.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

It's important. A lot of newbies don't realize when their two pair get counterfeited and the over pair with board pair becomes the better hand.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

I don't see how that's relevant in this hand.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

what would have been a better flop for me, KKQ or 237?
the paired Js in the hand I posted are relevant, not because they give me two pair, but because they make Villain having JJ less likely.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

237 is obviously a better flop. Not much 4betting happens with 22,33,77, where it occasionally does happen with AK and KQ and commonly KK,QQ.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Just as a side note here. I'd probably size my 4-bet to $9 or so.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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237 is obviously a better flop. Not much 4betting happens with 22,33,77, where it occasionally does happen with AK and KQ and commonly KK,QQ.

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That was my point. You have 2 pair on the KKQ board and 1 pair on the 237 board. Yet 237 is much better. A paired board doesn't improve my aces, that's why I referred to it as calling a shove with one pair.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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237 is obviously a better flop. Not much 4betting happens with 22,33,77, where it occasionally does happen with AK and KQ and commonly KK,QQ.

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That was my point. You have 2 pair on the KKQ board and 1 pair on the 237 board. Yet 237 is much better. A paired board doesn't improve my aces, that's why I INCORRECTLY referred to it as calling a shove with one pair.

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FYP

I should of followed CDL's lead in this thread.

*** You are ignoring this user ***

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

foal, if you have AA on a 222J5 board are you going to call it one pair? No, of course not, you have a full house. The board cards count and are relative. Its all about relative strength of your hand which is pretty good given that its a 4bet pot. I'd pretty much never fold aces in 4bet pots for 100 BB.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Your 4bet is too small. Otherwise, standard.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Agree that 4bet is too small, I'd 4bet to $10. Other than that, tough beat.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Raise preflop to where you're not giving him implied odds to hit a set. In this spot you're giving him 11.05:1 on his call. If you raise only $1 more he's only getting 8.84:1 which is not right to set hunt.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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237 is obviously a better flop. Not much 4betting happens with 22,33,77, where it occasionally does happen with AK and KQ and commonly KK,QQ.

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That was my point. You have 2 pair on the KKQ board and 1 pair on the 237 board. Yet 237 is much better. A paired board doesn't improve my aces, that's why I INCORRECTLY referred to it as calling a shove with one pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP

I should of followed CDL's lead in this thread.

*** You are ignoring this user ***

[/ QUOTE ]
Since I felt the board being paired isn't strategically relevant here, I instinctively (and yes -- inaccurately) described it as one pair. Mike tried to make the case that it is strategically relevant, I made the case that he was wrong and now he makes a rude display of ignoring me. It seems a bit like a childish "I'm taking my ball and going home" response from someone who can't think of a counter-argument. I had no idea this thread had gotten heated.

I guess I might have come off as rude toward CDL and if so I apologize, it wasn't my intention. I appreciate his input, it's good to know that I made a standard call on the flop.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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foal, if you have AA on a 222J5 board are you going to call it one pair? No, of course not, you have a full house. The board cards count and are relative. Its all about relative strength of your hand which is pretty good given that its a 4bet pot. I'd pretty much never fold aces in 4bet pots for 100 BB.

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I don't think that in this particular hand having one pair or two pair makes a difference, since all I'm worried about is three of a kind. But yes, while I don't agree with Mike's argument, I was wrong to say it that way, it was just an instinctive slip of the mind.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

My ignore list actually has a whopping 0 people in it.

You are also inaccurately claiming that I said two pair was relevant to this hand. I was speaking about the importance of realizing when you have two pair for poker in general.

Your example was apples and oranges with one paired broadway flop and one babies unpaired flop. It proved nothing except you were unable to come up with an apples to apples comparison.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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You are also inaccurately claiming that I said two pair was relevant to this hand. I was speaking about the importance of realizing when you have two pair for poker in general.

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Since I clearly interpreted it that way, you could have simply said you were "speaking about the importance of realizing when you have two pair for poker in general" instead of getting ornery.

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Your example was apples and oranges with one paired broadway flop and one babies unpaired flop. It proved nothing except you were unable to come up with an apples to apples comparison.

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Ok, make it 227 and 237. We're still going to play the hand exactly the same way given the preflop action.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

There is one flop I would consider laying down my aces after this preflop action. I already pointed it out. All other flops are instashoves/calls

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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deep-stacked

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http://techplant.com/images/blog/inconceivable.jpg

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

wat it men?

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

I'd say 200bb's +

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

That's kinda nit-picky. I thought the same thing at first, but 160BB is semi-deep. Not too deep to get it in on the flop in a 4-bet pot, though.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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That's kinda nit-picky.

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No [censored]. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img] You are an anal bunch. Should I say "deeper-stacked-than-usual" next time to avoid these kinds of jabs? Btw, Mike your monkey icon is tilting me. Get off mah thread and ignore me like a man.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Cool. (It's tilting you.)

No. (I will post where I want.)

I didn't care about the deep stack comment. That means different things to different people. You asked, I gave my opinion. Welcome to the forum.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

How can the evil monkey in the closet tilt you?

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

Prolly doesn't watch family guy.

Re: 25NL: AA deepstacked vs flop shove - standard?
 

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No. (I will post where I want.)

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Such obstinance.

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I didn't care about the deep stack comment. That means different things to different people. You asked, I gave my opinion. Welcome to the forum.

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I was referring to the dude who posted the pic, not you.

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How can the evil monkey in the closet tilt you?

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Just its combination with the way he's posting I think (I'm scurrd).

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Prolly doesn't watch family guy.

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Take that back. I do have a vague memory that it was out to get Chris or w/e.