Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Second behind Barry in OPS. 2nd behind Barry in OBP, 2nd behind Fielder in SLG, 1st in BA. Biggest difference btwn Bonds, Fielder and Chipper is that Chipper isn't getting intentionally walked as much 8 times compared to 43 and 17 resp. Also, BA. .339 vs .279 and .291. Bonds and chipper have both stolen 5 bases if that matters to you. As the MVP award tends to go, Bonds will be DQ'd for playing for cellar dwelling SF. Chipper will be dicounted for playing for almost elminated Atlanta. Other candidates are Holliday cor Col, Utley for Phil. I don't see any candidates on the 4 probable NL playoff teams.

link to stats comparing top 5 in OPS.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

David Wright.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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David Wright.

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The MVP usually comes from a playoff team.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

IF Colorado makes the playoffs, it should go to Holliday no question IYAM. But since that's a pretty slim chance... I guess Wright.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

If the Phillies make the playoffs:

http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/267...8519073_rs.jpg

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

If the Phillies sneak in it's Utley

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

so in the world we actually live in... do you still like Holliday?

I'll agree that if only players from playoff teams are eligible, Wright is the MVP (beating A. Ramirez). Of course, if Fielder and the Brew crew make it in, Wright has Fielder by .022 in OBP but Fielder has a .048 edge in OPS. A difference can then be found in fielding and Bassrunning, Wright getting the nod in both categories.

However, I've never bought the "MVP from a playoff team" argument. Who's had the best season? Who would be the most valueable player to your team? Based on the stats, chipper is your man, Bonds, I think, second.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

CSC is correct. I have no facts to back that up, just my mancrush on Chipper. Chipper for MVP!

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

lol
Hanly, Cabrera, Utley blah blah blah.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Do any of you actually put thought and reason into your responses? Can you argue for what you believe? All who have responded with the implied belief that it is correct that the MVP comes from a playoff team. Do you really believe that and can you argue for it?

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

I agree that it's silly to adhere to the must-be-in-the-playoffs-to-be-MVP rule, but generally these MVPs are ones that really did help their team in such a significant way to get to the playoffs. (eg. AL: see A-Rod)

I'd rather see Holliday get it more than anyone else, even if they don't the playoffs. He's having a crazy year, but isn't getting much recognition because of playing in Colorado, calling Coors Field home, and because the NL has a lot of MVP candidates. It's not nearly as easy as picking in the AL.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

If Chipper hadn't missed time for his thumb injury he'd be a lock, playoff team or not.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

I think the biggest (only?) argument for Utley is that his season is played at 2nd base. His VORP is probably the highest.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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Do any of you actually put thought and reason into your responses? Can you argue for what you believe? All who have responded with the implied belief that it is correct that the MVP comes from a playoff team. Do you really believe that and can you argue for it?

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Why is Chipper MVP and not Hanley Ramirez?

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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I agree that it's silly to adhere to the must-be-in-the-playoffs-to-be-MVP rule, but generally these MVPs are ones that really did help their team in such a significant way to get to the playoffs. (eg. AL: see A-Rod)

I'd rather see Holliday get it more than anyone else, even if they don't the playoffs. He's having a crazy year, but isn't getting much recognition because of playing in Colorado, calling Coors Field home, and because the NL has a lot of MVP candidates. It's not nearly as easy as picking in the AL.

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Holliday's numbers are sick, but his .857 Road OPS isn't MVP worthy IMO.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

why hanley, not chipper? Hanley is a less effective hitter and steals bases while getting caught 21% of the time.

Interestingly, Reyes and Ramirez are 32nd and 33rd in SB effectiveness, minimum 20 attempts.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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Do any of you actually put thought and reason into your responses? Can you argue for what you believe? All who have responded with the implied belief that it is correct that the MVP comes from a playoff team. Do you really believe that and can you argue for it?

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Why is Chipper MVP and not Hanley Ramirez?

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Why Hanley and not Cabrera? Or vice versa? I don't know if I could even pick between the two for their team (actually, I'd probably pick Hanley...). But Cabrera shouldn't even be considered if Holliday isn't.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Gee I dunno.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Not to sound like too much of a Brave homer, but Chipper is having an extremely good year defensively FWIW.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Oh, and hollidy should be considered... and then dismissed in favor of Chipper.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

The injury matters a lot with CJ.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

[ QUOTE ]
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David Wright.

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The MVP usually comes from a playoff team.

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Well, the Mets have not reached the playoffs just yet.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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If the Phillies make the playoffs:

http://aycu36.webshots.com/image/267...8519073_rs.jpg

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Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Chipper Jones has 85% of the plate appearances David Wright has.

They're close.

It'll probably be Wright and it would be a good decision.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

A few weeks ago, I would have said Wright. But because the Mets are apparently going to stagger into the playoffs (if they make it at all), I'm changing my mind. One of the many players with better stats will get it, regardless of whether they are on a playoff team.

But if the Mets on a tear, I reserve my right to change my mind back to Wright.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Its not Wright's fault his team is sucking. He isn't having his best month of the year, but his OPS is still >1 this month.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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Its not Wright's fault his team is sucking. He isn't having his best month of the year, but his OPS is still >1 this month.

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But the rationale for giving him the award over those with better numbers is that his team is making the playoffs. If they just barely manage to get in, I think that argument is weaker.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

If your argument is that Chipper has better "numbers" than Wright this year than that is a very weak argument in itself.

Wright has 100 more PA's this year. That is incredibly valuable, not to mention Wright > Chipper defensively.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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If your argument is that Chipper has better "numbers" than Wright this year than that is a very weak argument in itself.

Wright has 100 more PA's this year. That is incredibly valuable, not to mention Wright > Chipper defensively.

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Actually, I wasn't advocating Chipper, specifically. I was under the impression that Utley, Ramirez and perhaps even Rollins had better numbers overall than Wright.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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I think the biggest (only?) argument for Utley is that his season is played at 2nd base. His VORP is probably the highest.

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highest of what? second basemen?

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Wright is definitely a worthy candidate on his own merits, without any "who is going to the playoffs" consideration. More worthy then Rollins for sure and at this point I would probably vote for him over Utley and Ramirez too. I think Chipper, Pujols and Wright would be my top 3 at this point, not necessarily in that order.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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If your argument is that Chipper has better "numbers" than Wright this year than that is a very weak argument in itself.

Wright has 100 more PA's this year. That is incredibly valuable , not to mention Wright > Chipper defensively.

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Meaning that if they had the same amount of AB's CJ would be miles ahead

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

VORP:

Hanley: 85.6(jesus)
Wright: 70.7
Chipper: 69.9
Pujols: 64.9
Utley: 62.7

Wright is a much better fielder for his position than Hanley, but I'm not sure he's 16 runs better. I don't know where to go to find data re: defense that we can all agree on, but all metrics place Hanley well below average for shortstops, and Wright above.

James

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

According to UZR numbers (from July, so very old) Wright was on pace to finish the year 12 runs better then an average third basemen (defensively) and Ramirez was on pace to finish 31 runs below average for a SS (actually runs/150 games). It is certainly conceivable that Wright has been worth 16 runs more then him.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

I don't know how to convert these numbers to a run value, but here are some updated fielding numbers from HBT:

RZR = Revised Zone Rating is the proportion of balls hit into a fielder's zone that he successfully converted into an out. Doesn't include bonuses for DBs or plays made outside of the zone.
OOZ = Out Of Zone, or the total number of outs made by a fielder on balls hit outside of his zone.

Listings are name, RZR (RZR rank at their position in NL) OOZ (OOZ rank at their position in NL)

Ramirez: .774 (last) 44 (t-9th)
Wright: .697 (5th) 77 (1st)
Jones: .642 (7th) 55 (4th)
Pujols: .846 (1st) 49 (1st)
Utley: .876 (1st) 47 (4th)
Holliday: .900 (2nd) 46 (t-2nd)

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

chipper has been the best player in the NL all year long...hed be a mortal lock w/o missing games for the thumb but I still think he should be in the top 3 despite the braves; theyd be completely pathetic without him

And If he doesnt win it, holliday should

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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Its not Wright's fault his team is sucking. He isn't having his best month of the year, but his OPS is still >1 this month.

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But the rationale for giving him the award over those with better numbers is that his team is making the playoffs. If they just barely manage to get in, I think that argument is weaker.

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I dunno, I think it can actually be argued as the opposite. If a team is barely managing to get in with Wright, they would probably not make it without him.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

Benholio,

Perhaps, I place too much weight on the end of the season performance. Just barely making the playoffs - after having a healthy lead for substantial parts of the year - suggests to me that the most valuable player on the team didn't do much when it counted most.

Maybe that shouldn't be much of a factor, but I've got a feeling that it might well be one.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

He's had a 1.1+ OPS over the past two months.

Re: Chipper Jones - 2007 NL MVP
 

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Do any of you actually put thought and reason into your responses? Can you argue for what you believe? All who have responded with the implied belief that it is correct that the MVP comes from a playoff team. Do you really believe that and can you argue for it?

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The concept of value indicates that the player's contribution has given the team something of value. Finishing 3rd in your division and not making the playoffs is of very debateable value compared to finishing 4th and not making the playoffs.

Basically, if your team doesn't make the playoffs, the fact that they would have not made the playoffs by a wider margin without you is much less important than a team that makes the playoffs that wouldn't have made it without you.