Incident in Jena,La.
 

I did a search and couldn't find anything on this on 2p2, but it's all over the place on college campuses,facebook, etc. This link does a fair job of explaining at least what happened, but may be a little biased.

For cliff notes ill try to cover the most important bases: Jena, La. is a predominantly white town. At the local high school there's a tree that students sit under that is referred to as the "white tree" as it's understood to be a place where whites sit only.
-A black student asked if he could sit underneath the treet
-The next day three nooses were hung from the tree
-Black students held a nonviolent protest
-The DA came down and told them to cut it out and allegedly said "I can end your lives with a stroke of a pen"
-Fast forward to an incident where a white student was beaten up and put into the hospital by 6 of the local high school's black students.
-Said students were charged with a number of crimes the highest being second-degree attempted murder (later thrown out)
-Outrage re: the sentences

My interest is not bemoaning the ugliness of racism. This is a racially driven incident (though I find it interesting that these 6 are being turned into the victims after ganging up on one person) obviously, but I'm more interested in how the law views this incident. What would be an appropriate charge for the men who were 18 at the time of the incident? The minors? This has become particularly annoying to me after seeing the nonstop cheers of "Free the Jena 6!" I ask why they should be "freed"? They assaulted another student, and all the talk about the nooses,etc is just smoke and mirrors, and an effort to take the focus away from the crime committed. Yes, all the racism is sad and so forth but should that be an allowable excuse for 6 people ganging up on one person? And if the positions were flipped and if it was 6 white students on one black student how would the criminal justice system respond?

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

It's completely impossible to judge the merits of this case. If the evidence really is "more or less non-existent," then it's obviously a horrible injustice. If that's just rhetoric, then maybe it's fine (except for the gross racism preceding the assault).

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

I'm shocked that racism still exists in a small town in the south.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm shocked that racism still exists in a small town in the south.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're white you might try to get yourself a leadership position at the NAACP. Let us know how that goes.

Racism is institutionalized in America. It's also asymmetric. There is no Congressional White caucus, it's unthinkable.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I did a search and couldn't find anything on this on 2p2, but it's all over the place on college campuses,facebook, etc. This link does a fair job of explaining at least what happened, but may be a little biased.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that "a little biased" is quite an understatement. Wikipedia seems to be a better source. link

Attempted second-degree murder seems like a perfectly reasonable charge for knocking someone unconscious and then repeatedly kicking them in the head (assuming the offenders did that in this particular case).

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I did a search and couldn't find anything on this on 2p2, but it's all over the place on college campuses,facebook, etc. This link does a fair job of explaining at least what happened, but may be a little biased.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think that "a little biased" is quite an understatement. Wikipedia seems to be a better source. link

Attempted second-degree murder seems like a perfectly reasonable charge for knocking someone unconscious and then repeatedly kicking them in the head (assuming the offenders did that in this particular case).

[/ QUOTE ]


I attempted to be unbiased in my OP, but I was trying to make sure that I wasn't leaning too far. IMO 5 of 6 should at least be charged with 3rd degree aggravated assault. But in all honesty I have no idea how I'm supposed to even attempt to forgive 6 men/boys who consciously stomped one person out

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
At the local high school there's a tree that students sit under that is referred to as the "white tree" as it's understood to be a place where whites sit only.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's understood by who? You mean to say that the school implicitly condone such aberrations? No wonder there is racial problem down there!

Did this happened 60-70 years ago or is the "white only" tree, a contemporary event?

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the local high school there's a tree that students sit under that is referred to as the "white tree" as it's understood to be a place where whites sit only.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's understood by who? You mean to say that the school implicitly condone such aberrations? No wonder there is racial problem down there!

Did this happened 60-70 years ago or is the "white only" tree, a contemporary event?

[/ QUOTE ]


-according to everything you read about the situation it's "understood" by noone in particular...just everyone I suppose. My guess is that the assumption is that white students believe the black students understand it as such. Nothing about the school implicitly condoning anything, and it happened last year

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the local high school there's a tree that students sit under that is referred to as the "white tree" as it's understood to be a place where whites sit only.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's understood by who? You mean to say that the school implicitly condone such aberrations? No wonder there is racial problem down there!

Did this happened 60-70 years ago or is the "white only" tree, a contemporary event?

[/ QUOTE ]


-according to everything you read about the situation it's "understood" by noone in particular...just everyone I suppose. My guess is that the assumption is that white students believe the black students understand it as such. Nothing about the school implicitly condoning anything, and it happened last year

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is understood by noone in particular but condoned in any way, my suggestion is that the school board and teachers should have their employment terminated for fostering or allowing non-american prejudices to continue existing despite those being, I am sure, against the law!

I would also fire the police chief from reading the links.

I do sincerely hope that this is simply a redneck or hicks ville phenomena brought about by a few white in-breeding than really an american tolerated behavior.

I think african americans taking the law in their own hands, in this extreme, and intolerable case of the "white only treee shade", completely justified! Go bros!

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
At the local high school there's a tree that students sit under that is referred to as the "white tree" as it's understood to be a place where whites sit only.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's understood by who? You mean to say that the school implicitly condone such aberrations? No wonder there is racial problem down there!

Did this happened 60-70 years ago or is the "white only" tree, a contemporary event?

[/ QUOTE ]


-according to everything you read about the situation it's "understood" by noone in particular...just everyone I suppose. My guess is that the assumption is that white students believe the black students understand it as such. Nothing about the school implicitly condoning anything, and it happened last year

[/ QUOTE ]

If it is understood by noone in particular but condoned in any way, my suggestion is that the school board and teachers should have their employment terminated for fostering or allowing non-american prejudices to continue existing despite those being, I am sure, against the law!

I would also fire the police chief from reading the links.

I do sincerely hope that this is simply a redneck or hicks ville phenomena brought about by a few white in-breeding than really an american tolerated behavior.

I think african americans taking the law in their own hands, in this extreme, and intolerable case of the "white only treee shade", completely justified! Go bros!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you not understand how the media portrays a "white only tree" may be different then how it exists. If the tree just happened to be sat under by white students while blacks sat somewhere else, would you be calling for everyone in the school and on the board to resign?

You think that 6 students beating the [censored] out of one was justified? You are just as bigoted as those you speak against.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you not understand how the media portrays a "white only tree" may be different then how it exists. If the tree just happened to be sat under by white students while blacks sat somewhere else, would you be calling for everyone in the school and on the board to resign?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the concept of a white only tree as "understood" by some or even noone, yes, I object to it, especially if it still happens today when white people must be aware of the grave injustice that have been done to african americans. And on top of it it seems right that african american americans should be able to object to it via protests without police hassling. What's more, from the links I read at least it seems that there was then a form of judicial revenge against african americans which was, at least seemingly, a travesty of justice.

How do you explain noose appearing the next day, if it just happened to be a white only tree accidentally. Your racism is obvious and objectionable to me.

PS You must be a redneck from hicks ville, or, at least, display the same character traits!

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Do you not understand how the media portrays a "white only tree" may be different then how it exists. If the tree just happened to be sat under by white students while blacks sat somewhere else, would you be calling for everyone in the school and on the board to resign?

[/ QUOTE ]

If the concept of a white only tree as "understood" by some or even noone, yes, I object to it, especially if it still happens today when white people must be aware of the grave injustice that have been done to african americans. And on top of it it seems right that african american americans should be able to object to it via protests without police hassling. What's more, from the links I read at least it seems that there was then a form of judicial revenge against african americans which was, at least seemingly, a travesty of justice.

How do you explain noose appearing the next day, if it just happened to be a white only tree accidentally. Your racism is obvious and objectionable to me.

PS You must be a redneck from hicks ville, or, at least, display the same character traits!

[/ QUOTE ]

My problem is that if a couple of dumb racist kids planted the nooses that it shouldn't lead to condemnation of an entire school or schoolboard. Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence. You're attempt to justify violence is ridiculous. One of us definitely has the character traits of someone who is racially biased.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want your cake and eat too? How about reparations first, for the physical violence done to americans africans when slavery was the norm?

And when the fortunes have been redistributed between african americans, native americans and white americans then we will look at AC, but not before, when the obvious injustice of the current society, which is still tolerated or, de facto, accepted by people like you! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want your cake and eat too? How about reparations first, for the physical violence done to americans africans when slavery was the norm?

And when the fortunes have been redistributed between african americans, native americans and white americans then we will look at AC, but not before, when the obvious injustice of the current society, which is still tolerated or, de facto, accepted by people like you! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

For those scoring at home, yes, all 3500 of Midge's posts are just like this.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want your cake and eat too? How about reparations first, for the physical violence done to americans africans when slavery was the norm?

And when the fortunes have been redistributed between african americans, native americans and white americans then we will look at AC, but not before, when the obvious injustice of the current society, which is still tolerated or, de facto, accepted by people like you! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Reparations is a separate issue. How can you accuse me of tolerating injustice when you condone a violent response to non-violent actions?

Also, from this article :

"Three months prior to that attack, Bell committed two violent crimes while on probation for a Christmas Day battery in 2005, according to testimony."

No chance both sides are in the wrong, huh?

Also, the only way that I condoned the "white tree" was if the separtion, prior to the incident, was voluntary by both sides.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, the only way that I condoned the "white tree" was if the separtion, prior to the incident, was voluntary by both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see you are a proponent of apartheid!? You just don't get it! That is what riles me!

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the only way that I condoned the "white tree" was if the separtion, prior to the incident, was voluntary by both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see you are a proponent of apartheid!? You just don't get it! That is what riles me!

[/ QUOTE ]

Apartheid is a form of voluntary action? News to me.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Apartheid is a form of voluntary action? News to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
That surely was the claim coming from South Africa! It was a fair, equal, non-racially prejudiced ( [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) process.

Really glad to be able to enlighten you about some history!

PS I don't know what a white only tree would be except apartheid!

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Apartheid is a form of voluntary action? News to me.

[/ QUOTE ]
That surely was the claim coming from South Africa! It was a fair, equal, non-racially prejudiced ( [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) process.

Really glad to be able to enlighten you about some history!

PS I don't know what a white only tree would be except apartheid!

[/ QUOTE ]

You are dense. Perhaps I'm being trolled.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You are dense. Perhaps I'm being trolled.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are not being trolled, you simply aren't aware of your racism.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are dense. Perhaps I'm being trolled.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are not being trolled, you simply aren't aware of your racism.

[/ QUOTE ]

lol

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

I see this thread got ruined pretty fast...

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
my suggestion is that the school board and teachers should have their employment terminated for fostering or allowing non-american prejudices to continue existing despite those being, I am sure, against the law!

[/ QUOTE ]

Unbelievably, unpopular opinions are still legal in the USA.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want your cake and eat too? How about reparations first, for the physical violence done to americans africans when slavery was the norm?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol.

I'm 100% for those who were harmed pursuing damages claims against those who harmed them. The courthouse is open, file away.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the only way that I condoned the "white tree" was if the separtion, prior to the incident, was voluntary by both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see you are a proponent of apartheid!? You just don't get it! That is what riles me!

[/ QUOTE ]

Voluntary association = hate.

Call your senators NOW and DEMAND the creation of the National Bureau of Friendship who will impartially assign the "correct" number and type of friends to each and every citizen.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You are dense. Perhaps I'm being trolled.


[/ QUOTE ]

You are not being trolled, you simply aren't aware that I really am that [censored] [personal attack deleted].

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP and pre-emptively FMFYP for Iron (Iron baby, I work hard so you don't have to).

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the only way that I condoned the "white tree" was if the separtion, prior to the incident, was voluntary by both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see you are a proponent of apartheid!? You just don't get it! That is what riles me!

[/ QUOTE ]

Voluntary association = hate.

Call your senators NOW and DEMAND the creation of the National Bureau of Friendship who will impartially assign the "correct" number and type of friends to each and every citizen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if voluntary association DOES equal hate, in some circumstances, so what? Hate is illegal?

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Also, the only way that I condoned the "white tree" was if the separtion, prior to the incident, was voluntary by both sides.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh! I see you are a proponent of apartheid!? You just don't get it! That is what riles me!

[/ QUOTE ]

Voluntary association = hate.

Call your senators NOW and DEMAND the creation of the National Bureau of Friendship who will impartially assign the "correct" number and type of friends to each and every citizen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if voluntary association DOES equal hate, in some circumstances, so what? Hate is illegal?

[/ QUOTE ]

According to midge it is

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

I wonder if there is a "Black Tree", where white students are not welcomed.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want your cake and eat too? How about reparations first, for the physical violence done to americans africans when slavery was the norm?

And when the fortunes have been redistributed between african americans, native americans and white americans then we will look at AC, but not before, when the obvious injustice of the current society, which is still tolerated or, de facto, accepted by people like you! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

For those scoring at home, yes, all 3500 of Midge's posts are just like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the a posteriori probability that Midge is some ACist's wacky "stir the [censored]" account is considerably higher than I had realized. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Allegations of racism should be investigated separately from allegations of physical violence.

[/ QUOTE ]

You want your cake and eat too? How about reparations first, for the physical violence done to americans africans when slavery was the norm?

And when the fortunes have been redistributed between african americans, native americans and white americans then we will look at AC, but not before, when the obvious injustice of the current society, which is still tolerated or, de facto, accepted by people like you! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

For those scoring at home, yes, all 3500 of Midge's posts are just like this.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think the a posteriori probability that Midge is some ACist's wacky "stir the [censored]" account is considerably higher than I had realized. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He trolls SMP far more relentlessly than he trolls Politics, so he appears on my radar quite a bit.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

Midge, are you just joking around here? Or do you really not understand ANYTHING about America and United States law?

You are seriously coming off as completly clueless. Is this how all people outside the USA act with regards to matters IN the USA? A quick jump to conclusions without understanding anything about anything, and then sticking with that conclusion no matter what anyone says?

Let me break it down for you, a little bit, if I may?

In the United States it is not illegal to be racist.
In the United States it is illegal to physically assault another person.
The white student did not physically assault the black students.
The black students physically assaulted the white student.
The black students committed a crime.

I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that.

As for reperations, that is a seperate issue. If you want to create a thread about that, another issue which you clearly know very little about, do it; don't muddy up this thread with it.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

Are you saying that in the USA it is alright to have "whites only" trees or any areas?

I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that in the USA it is alright to have "whites only" trees or any areas?

I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that.


[/ QUOTE ]

It's not particularly noble but anyone can designate their house a whites only area. It's a dumb thing to do but it's not illegal to be dumb, one thing that you personally should be pretty thankful for.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

Obama Hopes Could Rest on Jena Case

"Yesterday, Mr. Obama was taunted by a veteran civil rights advocate, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, who made disparaging remarks about the senator for his failure to take the lead on the issue and said he was "acting like he's white," according to a report in a newspaper in Columbia, S.C., the State.

Rev. Jackson's remarks, which he later said he could not remember uttering, have rekindled a controversy from early in Mr. Obama's campaign over similar comments from black leaders who said he "wasn't black enough." Mr. Obama is the son of a white woman from Kansas and a black man from Kenya.

"If I were a candidate, I'd be all over Jena. Jena is a defining moment, just like Selma was a defining moment," Rev. Jackson said.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that in the USA it is alright to have "whites only" trees or any areas?

I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that.


[/ QUOTE ]

This was not an official, or even unofficial school policy. This is simply the way the students chose to act. Whites would hang out under the tree, the black kids would be wherever they hang out.
If the white students choose not to spend time with the black students, or vice versa, that is there decision, it isn't government endorsed segregation. Another example of this, from the same incident; apparently when the students were called into an assembly, the white kids sat together, and the black kids sat together. You cannot force people to spend time together.

And before you go calling me a hick or a racist, I've lived in two places in my life; New York and Philadelphia. I have several friends that are black, and some 2+2 members could attest to that.

Edit: By the way, Jesse Jackson said he totally endorses Obama, and doesn't question his "blackness" on CNN this morning.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Midge, are you just joking around here? Or do you really not understand ANYTHING about America and United States law?

You are seriously coming off as completly clueless. Is this how all people outside the USA act with regards to matters IN the USA? A quick jump to conclusions without understanding anything about anything, and then sticking with that conclusion no matter what anyone says?

Let me break it down for you, a little bit, if I may?

In the United States it is not illegal to be racist.
In the United States it is illegal to physically assault another person.
The white student did not physically assault the black students.
The black students physically assaulted the white student.
The black students committed a crime.

I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that.

As for reperations, that is a seperate issue. If you want to create a thread about that, another issue which you clearly know very little about, do it; don't muddy up this thread with it.

[/ QUOTE ]
Really... Really? Bzzz wrong. I'm sure if a white man pulled a shotgun on black students, he'd be arrested for that in Jena too... [censored], wrong again, the black students were clearly in the wrong. Thank god they were arrested. Yeah, nothing amiss here. Go back about your day.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

I wasn't there, as I'm sure you weren't, but as a result of eye witness testimony the police charged the black fellow, Bailey, with robbery, and some other charges (Wikipedia). I don't know if this was the correct decision, I wasn't there.

But, this does not, first of all, constitute assault, and secondly, allow for vigilante "justice", especially in this case in which it wasn't justice at all; it was 6 men beating up 1 man.

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
I wasn't there, as I'm sure you weren't, but as a result of eye witness testimony the police charged the black fellow, Bailey, with robbery, and some other charges (Wikipedia). I don't know if this was the correct decision, I wasn't there.

But, this does not, first of all, constitute assault, and secondly, allow for vigilante "justice", especially in this case in which it wasn't justice at all; it was 6 men beating up 1 man.

[/ QUOTE ]

What I find most interesting is your focus on the end of the chain of causal events, but not on the beginning,

I am most delighted for you to let me know that some of your best friends are african americans... LOL

PS You are missing the point. I hope someone close to you points it out to you!

Re: Incident in Jena,La.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that in the USA it is alright to have "whites only" trees or any areas?

I don't know how it can be made any clearer than that.


[/ QUOTE ]

Who cares if it's "alright." The point is, it isn't illegal. Beating someone half to death is. There are tons of white's only places still in the US. Am I a member at any of them? No. Do I think black people should be allowed to wait at the exit to them and beat anyone leaving senseless? No.

The kids that beat up the other kid are going to be punished, rightfully so. You can't go around beating up people who you disagree with. You should be thankful for that midge because from reading this thread, there'd probably be a line of people at your door.