$.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG (poster) checks, MP calls, CO calls, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP folds, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="#CC3333">Hero...???</font>

Should I three-bet or just call? I believe I should slow down if any 3, 4, 8, 9 or diamond appears on the turn. Should I have check-raised the flop?

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

I like c/r on flop and forcing the field to pay 2 bets. If you don't get a better and it is checked all around, you didn't lose much, kept the pot small and can reevaluate on the turn.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

two pair with ugly middle card yeah I would try a check raise here.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

Fast, don't slowplay multiway on coordinated boards. You also have decent redraws if behind.

If you don't know who is going to bet you should bet yourself. Take it to 3-town.

pre flop is fine as long as BB is passive, paying 1,5 SB to see a flop with 75o would suck more than anything in poker.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

I don't think this is a 3 bet hand at all myself.

bet/call or check/raise.

Either works and gives you the ability to make a good decision on the turn.

if we didn't see the action after you then its interesting to see what we would say regarding the check or the bet on the flop.

Next time post it so we don't know if there is action behind you.

It probably influenced my thinking.

Being oop with a good hand like this but having a lot of cards to come that can hurt you a value bet is not as effective on the flop as it could be.

it leads you to a tougher decision if the turn brings a scare card.

Whereas a check/raise defines your hand better even if the turn brings a scary card.

Missing the small bet opportunity on the flop if it gets checked around is a mistake, but considering the check/raise value on this hand I think its worth the risk.

I always try and think of the lines that I can play oop on the later streets that are going to protect my hand and give me the most value, by leading out here I am not sure I have a good line if a diamond comes and I have 3 callers.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

Preflop: I fold. And you should too. If there is value here it's only going to be found by a person who plays very well postflop. (I'm assuming its a 2cent small blind... even though I'd still probably mostly advise folding its 3cents.)

Flop: I lead here near 100% of the time. In order for me to go for a checkraise I need there to be a very aggressive player in LP. Easy 3bet for value.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

you have a reason to play 75o pre flop ... please explain (there aren't many situations where this hand is playable online) ... I know Breanz would say this is the nuts (but really, we all can't be as good as Beanz)

and since you've give no information about any of these players (especially the guy raising) - you 100% shouldn't be playing this hand

top and bottom pair (especially the crappy middle card kind) isn't the bee's-knees ... and on that board, are probably semi-marginal

without any information I personally would wait for a safe turn card before doing anymore raising

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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you have a reason to play 75o pre flop ... please explain (there aren't many situations where this hand is playable online)

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Well, it was $.03 into a pot of $.30 and I decided to play on only if I hit an open-ended straight draw or two pair or better, though that specific two pair I flopped seems difficult to play.

What are the weakest hands you would recommend completing pre-flop here? Any unsuited one-gappers at all below J9o? Was my reasoning (only play on the flop if I hit...) bad, or am I going about it the wrong way altogether?

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

PF is fine getting 10:1 here.

This board is extremely draw heavy. I 3bet now, and force BB to pay more if he is drawing a good % of the time, but calling and c/r a brick turn is OK too..

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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What are the weakest hands you would recommend completing pre-flop here? Any unsuited one-gappers at all below J9o?

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advice for live play:

connectors- i play 56o and up but thats because my opponents are brainless tards postflop.

57o is close. i would def call 97o.


online play: i wouldnt play anything worse than 98o.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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you have a reason to play 75o pre flop ... please explain (there aren't many situations where this hand is playable online)

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Well, it was $.03 into a pot of $.30 and I decided to play on only if I hit an open-ended straight draw or two pair or better, though that specific two pair I flopped seems difficult to play.

What are the weakest hands you would recommend completing pre-flop here? Any unsuited one-gappers at all below J9o? Was my reasoning (only play on the flop if I hit...) bad, or am I going about it the wrong way altogether?

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oh ... one of those games - I didn't know they had that non-even blind structure online

i guess I would call; it's not just the current odds that's a factor - it's the implied odds on the actual bet size itself ... I believe the standard in that structure is to play almost any two cards (yes?)

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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Either works and gives you the ability to make a good decision on the turn.

if we didn't see the action after you then its interesting to see what we would say regarding the check or the bet on the flop.

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I would be betting this flop 100% of the time and hoping to get raised so I can 3-bet.

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Being oop with a good hand like this but having a lot of cards to come that can hurt you a value bet is not as effective on the flop as it could be.

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A value bet is just as effective, it's just that the later streets become more difficult. I'd rather get the easy bets into the pot now so that the pot has padding for when the turn/river cards make life hard.

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Missing the small bet opportunity on the flop if it gets checked around is a mistake, but considering the check/raise value on this hand I think its worth the risk.

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Missing value with two pair when players are willing to pay to draw and might even raise their draws is actually significant in a 6-handed flop.

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I always try and think of the lines that I can play oop on the later streets that are going to protect my hand and give me the most value, by leading out here I am not sure I have a good line if a diamond comes and I have 3 callers.

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So what you're saying is that you're going to forgo a clear profit 80% of the time for the 20% of the time you don't like the turn card? Are you really losing 4 times as much money on the bad turn cards as you win on the good ones?

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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you have a reason to play 75o pre flop ... please explain (there aren't many situations where this hand is playable online)

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Well, it was $.03 into a pot of $.30 and I decided to play on only if I hit an open-ended straight draw or two pair or better, though that specific two pair I flopped seems difficult to play.

What are the weakest hands you would recommend completing pre-flop here? Any unsuited one-gappers at all below J9o? Was my reasoning (only play on the flop if I hit...) bad, or am I going about it the wrong way altogether?

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oh ... one of those games - I didn't know they had that non-even blind structure online

i guess I would call; it's not just the current odds that's a factor - it's the implied odds on the actual bet size itself ... I believe the standard in that structure is to play almost any two cards (yes?)

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wait a sec

you are putting in 3 parts of of 5 part blind ... this is worse!!!

you need to be even tighter in the sb ... for some reason I though the sb was 3c ... but you are calling 3c

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

before we get to subtle...one might consider that if calling is indeed a mistake, regardelss of the reason, its a mistake worth something like 0.05x3c or so... even if you made this mistake 10x100 it will still make an insignificant impact on your winrate.

I think a reason for not calling is that its a slippery slope from this call to calls that are more costly and will occur more frequently, but call or fold here is pretty meh.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

I call here, partially because I think there is value, partially because I don't want to be seen as a huge nit.

Also, if you use the argument that live players are bad enough, and internet players aren't bad enough to be outplayed here, then your image is important.

Heck, I'll play the button at a passive table (FR for sure, maybe not 6-max) with any two suited if everyone else plays too.

Post flop depends on the table, if they're really passive I bet out, but generally I will check raise. I think top pair will be a lot more common than a straight here and odds are you do have the best hand so I 3-bet this flop. The BB and CO provide overlay anyway, should you not have the best hand.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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Heck, I'll play the button at a passive table (FR for sure)

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[img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

GRUNCH:

Fold preflop. 75o is not worth even 1/2 SB.

Flop -- do not c/r. C/R here is ludicrous. No one was aggressive preflop, so you don't have any assurance anyone will bet for you.

From the raise... you could be up against a made straight, bigger two pair or set; but most likely you're up against a draw. 3-bang it, call down from cap. If a scare card comes on the turn, you can think about slowing down there as well.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

I b/c and c/r the turn when a safe card

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

so just how many bets do you nits need in the pot to be calling? 20:1? 213:1?

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

i second everything aaron said

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

IMO, it's better to only start playing 6-max at 0.5/1 and above on PokerStars because of the effect of the rake. But back to the hand - I like check-raising here, because I think there is a decent chance someone will bet this flop. If you know that from earlier hands your opponents are not betting this flop without at least a pair, then I prefer leading out.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

You "fold preflop" guys need to stop being such huge nits. Folding anything playable getting 11:1 with idiots in the pot is ridiculous.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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IMO, it's better to only start playing 6-max at 0.5/1 and above on PokerStars because of the effect of the rake. But back to the hand - I like check-raising here, because I think there is a decent chance someone will bet this flop. If you know that from earlier hands your opponents are not betting this flop without at least a pair, then I prefer leading out.

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Do you have any math to back this up? At first glance, I'd say you are crazy... and that the games are way good enough (ie players bad enough) at &lt; .5/1 that the rake is more than covered. Even at 6max, you should end up paying less than your fair share of rake if the game is the typical uber loose 6max game.... and if it is w/t, then the rake hits you more, but you have an advantage there as well obviously.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

play the level you're rolled for. waiting til .5/1 is ridic if you don't have a few hundred dollars. also worse players more than make up for worse rake.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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You "fold preflop" guys need to stop being such huge nits. Folding anything playable getting 11:1 with idiots in the pot is ridiculous.

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Um, Hero has 75o. That's barely playable even at these levels, especially from the SB. I play this game and I dump this crap preflop without a second thought.

Of course, now that OP is in this spot, you lead out, and you should 3-bet because you've got the best hand, but it's very vulnerable and you really don't want to see another card.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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Um, Hero has 75o. That's barely playable even at these levels, especially from the SB. I play this game and I dump this crap preflop without a second thought.


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Then you are leaving money at the table.

Go find out what your odds are to flop 2 pair or better. Then add in all the times you will flop an OESD or a pair + a gutshot.

Seriously! Dont fold anything playable with those odds.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

I agree with Oink et al. Just as long as one is has an idea to what their minimum standards are to continue after the flop then you can def make money here....esp at 6max where people lurve to payoff. implied odds ftw.....fwiw imho any case not to play here prob should include reads that villians are NOT going to ship monies to hero if hero hits.

Re: $.05/$.10, 6-max: How do I play this flop?
 

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Um, Hero has 75o. That's barely playable even at these levels, especially from the SB. I play this game and I dump this crap preflop without a second thought.


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Then you are leaving money at the table.

Go find out what your odds are to flop 2 pair or better. Then add in all the times you will flop an OESD or a pair + a gutshot.

Seriously! Dont fold anything playable with those odds.

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---
11,537,960 games 440.297 secs 26,204 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 12.850% 11.65% 01.20% 1344292 138378.25 { 7c5s }
Hand 1: 17.431% 16.16% 01.27% 1864181 146991.17 { random }
Hand 2: 17.415% 16.14% 01.28% 1862142 147166.25 { random }
Hand 3: 17.440% 16.16% 01.28% 1864786 147380.75 { random }
Hand 4: 17.443% 16.17% 01.27% 1865611 146909.42 { random }
Hand 5: 17.422% 16.15% 01.27% 1863394 146728.17 { random }

So that's our equity against five random hands, which I think is what we have to assume we're up against, since we don't have any reads.

Here's an article from the PokerStove site with charts for this exact situation, which tell us that we have an 11% chance of improving on the flop. Getting 11:1 in this limped family pot, this is actually probably the only situation we should be playing this hand. (I'd still like better cards, though.)