Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

UTG has been pretty fishy. MP I haven't noticed at all. Had his stack before I got there.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $145.45
BB: $110.15
UTG: $106.10
MP: $151.05
CO: $197.25
BTN: $54.40

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
<font color="red">UTG raises to $3.00</font>, MP calls $3.00, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $13.00</font>, BB folds, UTG calls $10.00, MP calls $10.00

Flop: ($40) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $33.00</font>, UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $78.00</font>, Hero...

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

id raise a little more pre, and im getting it in here because mp looks like a fish.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

i'd get it in.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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i'd get it in.

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Very quickly. If you're beat, you're beat, I wouldn't ever consider folding without some uber-read.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

I fold

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

Get it in. Would you even consider folding KK here(I wouldn't)? JJ is very similar to KK here.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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Get it in. Would you even consider folding KK here(I wouldn't)? JJ is very similar to KK here.

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Would you get it in with 99 here? 99 is very similar to JJ here.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

yeah get it in

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

I don't think 99 is very similar to JJ, and I don't think JJ is necessarily very similar to KK. KK beats JJ and QQ, and without reads I could definitely see an unknown play these hands like this.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

That said I get it in.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

im almost always the poster that says yah get it in, etc b/c i dont fold. but in this spot i think its a fold.
factors
150 bb deep
very obvious we have an over pair (dont think hes going to bluff b/c i dont think he expects us to fold on an innocent board)
his range is most likely small pairs from preflop action.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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im almost always the poster that says yah get it in, etc b/c i dont fold. but in this spot i think its a fold.
factors
150 bb deep
very obvious we have an over pair (dont think hes going to bluff b/c i dont think he expects us to fold on an innocent board)
his range is most likely small pairs from preflop action.

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Ya, when I titled my post "likely standard" it referred to this being a fold, not a puah.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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Get it in. Would you even consider folding KK here(I wouldn't)? JJ is very similar to KK here.

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Would you get it in with 99 here? 99 is very similar to JJ here.

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Probably not. TT/JJ are pretty likely hands for him to have with this line given pf and flop. Also, AJ/AT have an extra 12% equity vs 99.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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Get it in. Would you even consider folding KK here(I wouldn't)? JJ is very similar to KK here.

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Would you get it in with 99 here? 99 is very similar to JJ here.

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Many call a raise with JJ/TT preflop. Obv KK&gt;&gt;&gt;99. The differance between KK and JJ isn't insignificant either, because AsKs/AsQs/KsQs/QsJs/KsJs etc will probably make up for a decent part of his range. I'd say KK&gt;JJ&gt;&gt;&gt;99.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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Get it in. Would you even consider folding KK here(I wouldn't)? JJ is very similar to KK here.

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Would you get it in with 99 here? 99 is very similar to JJ here.

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Many call a raise with JJ/TT preflop. Obv KK&gt;&gt;&gt;99. The differance between KK and JJ isn't insignificant either, because AsKs/AsQs/KsQs/QsJs/KsJs will probably make up for a decent part of his range. I'd say KK&gt;JJ&gt;&gt;&gt;99.

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Agree. Maybe I came across a bit strong with saying JJ is very similar to KK, but there isn't a huge difference imo.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

JJ is really, really close. I probably pitch it here without a read. I'm not sure I completely like that answer, though. I snap call (with moderate fist pump) KK. I insta-fold 99.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

well clearly the responses are very divided, which does mean that this is a pretty nasty spot, not at all a snap-anything.

lets consider if there are any other lines we might take where are course of action is not so fuzzy.

how about a flop checkraise?

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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well clearly the responses are very divided, which does mean that this is a pretty nasty spot, not at all a snap-anything.

lets consider if there are any other lines we might take where are course of action is not so fuzzy.

how about a flop checkraise?

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Don't particularly like other lines. Check-through is pretty ugly. With JJ I think you just have to drive the action here.

Regarding why I'm getting it in (apologies for not explaining) we have $100 left and $70 in the middle after our bet. Given that many people overplay their middle pairs in this type of spot, there's no way I'm leaving that money out there. If he's good/bad enough to play AA/KK this way, GG him. So this is typically 99-QQ with other garbage we beat thrown in, plus some sets that we lose to. That makes JJ a pretty easy shove to me. TT is when I would puke and probably fold.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

villain is only raising:
1) hands that have you crushed - QQ+ (hes unknown so big pairs are very possible, and sets (he called a raise and then a reraise, so small pp's very likely)

2) combo draws that have greater equity than JJ (AsXs where X = 4/Q/K)

3) pp's 66-TT (very unlikely because people dont generally [censored] around in 3 bet pots, and especially not in multiway 3 bet pots, and ESPECIALLY not 150bb's

the frequency of (1) + (2) &gt;&gt;&gt; (3)

pretty standard looking fold imo

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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i'd get it in.

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care to elaborate....i'm usually folding in spots like these. I'd like to hear a case for shoving....

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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villain is only raising:
1) hands that have you crushed - QQ+ (hes unknown so big pairs are very possible, and sets (he called a raise and then a reraise, so small pp's very likely)

2) combo draws that have greater equity than JJ (AsXs where X = 4/Q/K)

3) pp's 66-TT (very unlikely because people dont generally [censored] around in 3 bet pots, and especially not in multiway 3 bet pots, and ESPECIALLY not 150bb's

the frequency of (1) + (2) &gt;&gt;&gt; (3)

pretty standard looking fold imo

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Again, we can be clear dogs here and it's an easy shove because there is so much money in the middle. I guess anyone interested can plug in their own numbers and figure it out for themselves.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

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I fold

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Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

A rough guess, you have over 60% equity and 1/3rd of your stack in, it's a shove. The primary problem is, can we take out hands like mid over pairs from his range, and say he isn't raising those hands on the flop, I don't really think you can... thus...

Your pre-flop play kind of stuck you in this spot... it happens.

Re: Likely standard flop spot in 3b 3way pot
 

I think this look very much like a set. Since you haven't noticed MP he is probably a nit. You represented 1010+ and still he makes a small "push me raise". I'd fold withóut reads, but maybe the Prima NL100 plays different than FTP...