Absolute Rigged?
 

From BBV: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12097244

Cliffsnotes: A few accounts (3-4) are alleged to be able to see holecards of other players, and they played high stakes tournaments and cash games.

This could be very bad for online poker/gambling in general.

EDIT: The thread was moved to the mod forum, the sources seem to be adanthar and bicyclekick (both mods).

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

so that's a link to a post in BBV...but there were other posts in HSNL and HSL. i guess they moved those but not the BBV thread...?

move them back - this is ridiculous

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

It's funny how when there is a time to spam Absolute comes running but when they have been caught in what could be one of the sleaziest scandals in online poker history they are nowhere to be found.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

Um, before we anoint this with any superlatives, i'd like to see a little more evidence than a questionable HH.

I've been around long enough to have witnessed plenty of "rigged scandals"...funny how once the regulars making the accusations stop running so bad on the site in question, the rigged accusations peter off.

Un-lock the relevant threads, mods. What needs to be kept secret?

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

I might owe some people some apologies in the near future since i just realized that DOUBLEDRAG was one of the accounts ppl were accusing.

Quick anecdote: I played the guy at 15/30NL and to say he steamrolled the table would be the understatement of the year. First off, his VPIP was at LEAST 95%. No joke. He was prob raising or re-raising 50% of hands too...and doing F'd up stuff like min-reraising OOP all the time. Anyway, never saw him show down a loser (that i can remember altho i'll check my stats). My friend walked into the room while i was playing and i told him he had to watch this, that i was getting owned by DOUBLEDRAG and id never been so close to accusing someone of cheating. lol -- will be interesting to see how this turns out. i think he took me for like 6 grand or so. He had turned his $6,000 buy-in into $28,000 in around 200 hands playing 95% VPIP. That's hardly a smoking gun, but boy-oh-boy. Mods, if u want my HHs of this guy, let me know.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

I'm interested in how this one pans out. It doesn't seem possible that somebody with an account like this could be stupid enough to abuse it in this way.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

GG Absolute
You'll never get another penny from anyone if this proves out

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm interested in how this one pans out. It doesn't seem possible that somebody with an account like this could be stupid enough to abuse it in this way.

[/ QUOTE ]

No doubt, I understand how someone could get a little greedy/careless with this, but c'mon. This dude plays one tournament and wins $30K on T high? When does this clown start showing up in HH's?

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Un-lock the relevant threads, mods. What needs to be kept secret?

[/ QUOTE ]
The mods decided to move the threads because they do not want the people in question to get word that others know they are cheating. If they realize others know they will obv cash out everything immediately

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Un-lock the relevant threads, mods. What needs to be kept secret?

[/ QUOTE ]
The mods decided to move the threads because they do not want the people in question to get word that others know they are cheating. If they realize others know they will obv cash out everything immediately

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes because the cheaters will hear about the threads and just think it must be those other cheaters its not us.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

How does this factor in with UB? Are they one entity now or do they operate seperately?

I'm curious what UB thinks of this situation if AP won't respond.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4894/dragxm4.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1...bledraglq9.png

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/491/graycatrb9.jpg

ha

ha

hahahahahhhaaha

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/4894/dragxm4.jpg

http://img511.imageshack.us/img511/1...bledraglq9.png

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/491/graycatrb9.jpg

ha

ha

hahahahahhhaaha

[/ QUOTE ]

This is all the proof i need. Horrible

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

Some of you might not know this.. But Ub has been notorious for using bots. This does not surprise me one bit.

Teddy: How much more proof do you need FFS? How much more can they give you then HH'S.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Some of you might not know this.. But Ub has been notorious for using bots. This does not surprise me one bit.

Teddy: How much more proof do you need FFS? How much more can they give you then HH'S.

[/ QUOTE ]

i posted that screenshot, moran. i'm drinking the coolaid now too.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

I don't feel like going around to different threads trying to catch up with whatever the hell everyone is talking about.

Cliff-notes or slightly longer version please?

How is it alleged that these players are somehow able to see others' hole-cards? Are they supposed to be 'see everything' type props who are profiting for the house or are they regular 'outside' players who somehow hacked into AP's servers?

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]


Cliff-notes or slightly longer version please?


[/ QUOTE ]

Hand histories and stats strongly suggest the player(s) can see all the hole cards. I think one quote was something along the lines of it being played like a complete retard that could see what their opponent was holding.

[ QUOTE ]
How is it alleged that these players are somehow able to see others' hole-cards? Are they supposed to be 'see everything' type props who are profiting for the house or are they regular 'outside' players who somehow hacked into AP's servers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Undetermined.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel like going around to different threads trying to catch up with whatever the hell everyone is talking about.

Cliff-notes or slightly longer version please?

How is it alleged that these players are somehow able to see others' hole-cards? Are they supposed to be 'see everything' type props who are profiting for the house or are they regular 'outside' players who somehow hacked into AP's servers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Basic gist of hand histories are things like:

Repeatedly calling big bluffs/semi-bluffs with hands like bad K-high's when it's the best hand.

Making overbet value bets with really marginal hands against slightly worse hands.

Playing really aggressive preflop generally, but just limp/calling when opponents have a big pair preflop. (i.e. playing 90/70 preflop and limp-calling with TT when opponent has KK. Open limping QTo on the button when the sb has AA)

Playing ~90/70 for nl and ~65/55 for limit, having infinate river agression factor, and running at like 20bb/100 (limit) and 300bb/100 (nl) over several different 200-500 hand samples .

Never showing down losers unless a bluff gets picked off, or he gets sucked out on with the money going in before the river.

Always folding when opponents have strong hands.

Dumping 100k+ heads-up to a random player in a big nl game a few days ago by repeatedly raising all but $1 in and folding to the all-in.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

My opinion is that this is a huge breakdown in AP's controls in that these people somehow hacked their way into this information. It makes no logical sense to me that a poker site would jeopardize themselves this way intentionally. These threads are huge fodder for all the conspiracy theorists to say I told you so, but realistically I'm sure this is an isolated HUGE problem that has nothing to do with a site being "ZOMG RIGGED", but instead somebody finding a way to beat the system.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

My guess is that an unscrupulous employee in their software department left himself a backdoor or two. The hand histories are pretty damning.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

When online poker cash games first started back in the late 90's, there was one client that got hacked. I think it was Planet Poker, but I'm not sure.

Their software transmitted data to each client that it shouldn't have (including all hole cards, but I can't remember if it included what card was next off the deck or not). Someone hacked into the client and jacked that data stream, so they could see veryone's cards.

Not sure if Absolute's software does something like this or if it has to be server-side.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

re: planet poker - the story of them being hacked is linked from the forum FAQ

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

ROFL at infinite river aggro.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
ROFL at infinite river aggro.

[/ QUOTE ]

know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
From BBV: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post12097244

Cliffsnotes: A few accounts (3-4) are alleged to be able to see holecards of other players, and they played high stakes tournaments and cash games.

This could be very bad for online poker/gambling in general.

EDIT: The thread was moved to the mod forum, the sources seem to be adanthar and bicyclekick (both mods).

[/ QUOTE ]

CAnt say I didnt warn everyone

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
CAnt say I didnt warn everyone

[/ QUOTE ]

...but you didn't?

you were convinced that other sites were "OK" and only stars was rigged.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
CAnt say I didnt warn everyone

[/ QUOTE ]
Please fall off a cliff at your leisure.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

The cheaters work for absolute right?

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dumping 100k+ heads-up to a random player in a big nl game a few days ago by repeatedly raising all but $1 in and folding to the all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

wait wtf

I must have missed that in the big thread

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The cheaters work for absolute right?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've just read that entire thread, and there's no strong evidence that this is true.

There is a mention of another forum where someone claims to be a former AP employee who took part in "rigging."


However, it is possible that they've been hacked, or it is a disgruntled ex-employee, or even a current employee who is doing this without AP's authorisation.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Dumping 100k+ heads-up to a random player in a big nl game a few days ago by repeatedly raising all but $1 in and folding to the all-in.

[/ QUOTE ]

wait wtf

I must have missed that in the big thread

[/ QUOTE ]

It was in the original High Stakes Limit thread that got moved to the mods forum.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't feel like going around to different threads trying to catch up with whatever the hell everyone is talking about.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bob: you really want to read the first few pages of the BBV thread, through Adanthar posting Ikestoys' hand histories. They're really incredible, and no cliff's notes will do them justice.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
The cheaters own absolute right?

[/ QUOTE ]

After reading the thread, I fixed my post.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

Druff addressed this as best as he could on NWP, player is likely Mark Seif himself. Also interesting thread from ITH a year ago about other shady behavior.

Link

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

this is [censored]-ing scary

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

"player is likely Mark Seif himself."



Wait....
WHAT?!?!?!?!?????!!!!!!111111111111!!!!!!?!?!?!

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

Oliver, it is extremely irresponsible to claim that the player is "likely" Mark Seif because of that post on ITH from February 2006. You're just creating and spreading a rumor that has very little substantiation, and that anecdotal story from over a year ago had almost no evidence, whereas the current situation is overwhelming.

Thus far, Seif hasn't been convicted of anything other than being a supreme douchebag; for all we know he has nothing to do with this. Again, you are just being totally irresponsible.

-Michael

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

Check some of the chat transcripts for one of the three accounts in question. At one time, there is an extreme possibility that Seif was playing on one of them, a reference to busting early in the 03 ME.

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Check some of the chat transcripts for one of the three accounts in question. At one time, there is an extreme possibility that Seif was playing on one of them, a reference to busting early in the 03 ME.

[/ QUOTE ]
Isn't Seif the douchebag who represented Crispin in the lawsuit against Jamie Gold?

Wouldn't this quote from Seif be ironic if he's involved in this?

[ QUOTE ]
Gold is "a lying, conniving and geniunely dishonest person," says Seif, and "JG is not really a poker player, but most of the public doesn't know that."

Seif says further, "After so much positive momentum for poker for a few years now, it saddens and angers me to think that one guy can benefit so hugely from the years of hard work of great poker ambassadors ..., but yet, also bring such dishonor to the game."

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Absolute Rigged?
 

Josem,

Link to the thread that an AP employee claims to be involved in "rigging?"