Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

BT is 38/10/.88/47 280 hands
Other two are passive fish

6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8SB, 4 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, Button calls, SB folds.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (9BB, 2 players)
Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, Hero folds.
Uncalled bets: 1BB returned to Button.

Results:
Final pot: 9BB

Flop was one of those inspirations. I'm not too happy with it in retrospect since I don't have the best hand and preventing him from checking through, which is why I bet, isn't a problem. Makes little effective difference though as I'd have lead this turn anyway. River seems pretty obvious IMO, but check up time.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

I think the river fold is fine. Flop I'd check also, I think a bet is usually going in awyway and can't think of much benefit to donking.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

Would it be a huge mistake to check the turn?

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

I can't see BTN raising turn with any hands you beat only a slim chance for a split. Good fold

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Would it be a huge mistake to check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes


[ QUOTE ]
I can't see BTN raising turn with any hands you beat only a slim chance for a split. Good fold

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You guys have to be [censored] kidding me?!?!

QJ, QT, Q8, J9, T9, 98, AsTs, As8s. Not to mention all sorts of crap.

DONT FOLD TOP PAIR FOR ONE BET AGAINST A MORON!

jeez.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would it be a huge mistake to check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes


[ QUOTE ]
I can't see BTN raising turn with any hands you beat only a slim chance for a split. Good fold

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys have to be [censored] kidding me?!?!

QJ, QT, Q8, J9, T9, 98, AsTs, As8s. Not to mention all sorts of crap.

DONT FOLD TOP PAIR FOR ONE BET AGAINST A MORON!

jeez.



[/ QUOTE ]

why do you think he's a moron? A 10% pf raiser don't raise many of those hand after a limper.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Would it be a huge mistake to check the turn?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes


[ QUOTE ]
I can't see BTN raising turn with any hands you beat only a slim chance for a split. Good fold

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys have to be [censored] kidding me?!?!

QJ, QT, Q8, J9, T9, 98, AsTs, As8s. Not to mention all sorts of crap.

DONT FOLD TOP PAIR FOR ONE BET AGAINST A MORON!

jeez.



[/ QUOTE ]

why do you think he's a moron? A 10% pf raiser don't raise many of those hand after a limper.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I edited my post already.

I missed his PF raise.

That said I still call.

Just because his PFR is 10 doesnt mean he wont raise those hands I mentioned.

I played a guy last night with 50/1 stats over big sample. The only hand I saw him raise was A3o in the SB.

Dont fold vs morons. And he is a moron.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Dont fold vs morons. And he is a moron.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

I agree that your inspired flop donk isn't good. I call the river for sure, but I've been going to SD about 43% of the time over my last 15,000 hands and my AF is closing in on 1.3 on the river. If calling this river is a mistake (and I don't think it is) it's going to be a very small one imo.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

The pot has gotten big enough that a call seems marginally OK on the end.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
If calling this river is a mistake (and I don't think it is) it's going to be a very small one imo.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

i check call the turn, but i suck.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

I just check the flop. I call the river everytime - I can't fold top pair on the river in a fairly big pot against a bad villain.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

wtf how do you fold the river?

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

Ya Oink is right imo, not to crazy about the fold. You have to be REALLY certain you are beat, and I dont think you can be that certain here. Far to many people do unlogic stuff. This big a pot I call.

Stokken

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

i really don't like this fold at all.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

i fold this river usualy fwiw

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

you c/c turn c/f river?

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

Do you think A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K9, 99 and AJ are in villains range? He'd probably raise some of those hands on the flop though.

I can't fold the river.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K9, 99 and AJ are in villains range? He'd probably raise some of those hands on the flop though.

I can't fold the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think a guy like this ever plays 99 like this. I don't think he raises K9 pf. AsTs is possible but largely insignificant (1 combo). AJ is possible. That's the hand I thought of on the river. In the end, I just don't think this guy would call the flop here and then raise one of the worst turns enough.

I understand the point about low pfr guys not always raise the top X%, but I think there's a difference between a 40/10 type and a 50/3 type. 50/3 guys raise when they tilt or think they're mixing it up or w/e. They limp big hands because they're afraid of getting sucked out on or missing. IMO 40/10 guys just don't get that those 10-20% hands are often for value. Often they are full ring converts. They think they need to be looser short handed so they limp more, but raise the same.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
you c/c turn c/f river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I like a turn c/c and I think it broadens his river range significantly enough to call.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

i also check turn given your flop play and agree that you should c/c the river after checking the turn.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

I would never bet the flop, and I don't like the river fold.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

Ed Miller would slap you!

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

Could someone explain why you would call the turn raise and then fold to a river bet when it clearly did not improve his hand? Why not just fold to the turn raise and save yourself a bet?

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

hand: KQ
board: JT8K
pot: 8bb

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

I think it is a borderline call. I think you'll see AK here a lot of the time. But you'll gain some info for future ref.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

p.s. I fold

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

because he didnt raise the flop I would discount hands other than KQ , KTs, AQ, AK very signifcantly but not entirely.

Adding a few bluffs in there ( you cant totally discount this possibility) and I think you have a pretty close to indifferent situation on the river, leaning towards a fold.

Not really sure how much a semi passive donk "slowplays" hands like or AA/JJ/TT/88 on a board like this or doesnt raise a hand like KJ. Pretty much the crucial variable to the hand.

That being said, i infinitely prefer a turn c/c, because you are behind against his range on the turn, and it gives him more incentive to bluff with hands like 77/AT.

If he decides to check his other hands behind, most hands you are ahead of are drawing pretty slim, so giving them a free card isnt that bad.

Flop donk is pretty bad (not from a EV perspective, but from a obvious decision perspective) , your draw isnt as strong as it looks so its not happening for value, your never taking down a pot and your oop [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

[ QUOTE ]
p.s. I fold

[/ QUOTE ]

if you c/c the turn i think a river c/f is <font color="blue">blargamel </font>

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

It's not blargamel because I think we would b/f after c/c turn.

Re: Hand in which I fold TPSK for one bet on the river
 

yes, "a" is not "b" because it is "a"

pretty sure that's what you just said.

vehn said that he checks the turn and folds the river. but not at the same time.