plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

hi another stupid question by me. im curious to what u guys have for BB/100 hands for different levels. also how many hands do full time players see a month? over 100k hands a month too many? is that dropping my BB/100 hand stats? any info on whats attainable or substainable will appreciated

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

I still don't have enough hands for the BB/100 to be stable at a given level (80K hands but no more than 25K at any given level). Overall 2BB/100, 2BB/100 at 0.25, -0.5BB/100 at 0.50, 8BB/100 at $1 ([img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]), loser at $2, winner at $4 (over only a few hands at those levels...). The 0.25 winrate is shameful; I used to beat that game at 11BB/100 (for like the first 15K hands I played it) and then ran like ice for 10K hands.
I don't know about hands per month. It's taken me a year to play 80K hands, but I never play more than 3 tables, and only a few hours in a day. Davebreal has shown some graphs that show 80K hands in a month, but he multitables a lot.
As for attainable winrate, I have no idea - but I would assume that there is an inverse relationship between number of hands played and winrate, for various reasons. I do think a strong player could clear 10BB/100 at the $0.25 game or 6BB/100 at the $1 game, but for higher limits I have no idea. My winrate is certainly not representative of what's possible; I'd guess I'm only around the 85-90th percentile (skillwise) of cash game players at the levels I usually play.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

That's actually quite encouraging -- my rates are about the same except way positive at 25 cent and negative at $1 ... but I don't play many hands, so this might be an anomaly.

I show +6BB/100 over 40k hands at all levels, but those numbers are skewed by outrageous wins at the lowest of levels. From what I have seen here, 2BB/100 seems sustainable by the best players, and the game can only be made truly and permanently profitable by a generous rakeback or rebate deal.

I wasn't sure where I stand. This information is encouraging & helpful.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

I think 5-10 PTBB/100 (maybe more) would be attainable by the best players. I dont have my old database but was just looking at my Aug 1 - current date stuff and dont have more than 25k hands on anyone at one limit to really see some good numbers.

I know that last year I was between 5-8 PTBB/100 for the main 4 limits of 1/2 and 2/4 PLO8 and NLO8, that was a sample size of 60,000 hands and I dont consider myself one of the best so I am thinking some could do much better.

Maybe Dave will comment on his long run results as he plays a pretty high number of hands each month.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

FWIW, here are my stats. It took me about a year to play these hands:

http://i1.tinypic.com/6878y2p.jpg

I want to try out the 1/2 level. Which winrate should I expect at that level and how much better will the average player be there?

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

If you continue to have a 34 vp and only a 51.67 won at showdown percentage, you will have your butt handed to you.

Mega

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

8.79 BB/100 in 28,000 hands on Bodog since May, when PT started tracking Bodog.

I'd have to dig out my stats on Party and other sites, but if I recall correctly the BB/100 was around 6 in something like 70,000 hands.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

1) you have to put parameters on the discussion such as fr, sh, hu, etc. ditto with how often you'll sit in marginal ev situations in order to start a game that will end up very much +ev.

2) (to MattS) the nature of the game changes from 200+ imho. if you can adapt, i think you can make similar numbers. if you do, you'll be one of the better players in the game (5-10 seems "good" as thestation said).

3) for those earning one or two ptbbs per 100 at lower levels, i'd adjust my game before i'd move up... or at least understand why your earn is so low. fwiw, a lot of higher stakes players don't do well when they're forced to play lower (for whatever reason). the hardest thing i ever did was play a mix of 100 and 200 plo8 games -- the styles required to play well were quite different.

4) be careful about referring to dave's stats. he plays A LOT of sh poker. he plays (sometimes) A LOT of tables. he pushes A LOT of marginal hands. i don't know the gross details of dave's stats, but i guess he sacrifices some quality of his game selection and game strategy (and therefore bb/100) in order to increase his hourly earn (esp. if you include rakeback). if he played four tables and could maintain focus, i think his bb/100 would be much higher (just a guess).

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

What is wrong with my VP$IP? I play a lot of 6max. And as for W$SD, unfortunately this number does not distinguish between several pot sizes. I just hope I am winning the big ones and losing only the small ones [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

[ QUOTE ]
What is wrong with my VP$IP? I play a lot of 6max. And as for W$SD, unfortunately this number does not distinguish between several pot sizes. I just hope I am winning the big ones and losing only the small ones [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing is wrong with your VPIP, it is the W$SD that didn't look so hot. But Mega was being a troll.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

This is such a complicated question. Almost every player I know that came up through all the limits won over 10bb/100s up to about the $100 level (with some absolutely crazy good bb/100s for the .25 and .50 levels) And that was by simply playing a solid Medium-tight aggressive game. After the $100 level I think there are some great players that sustain between 5-10bb/100s, and many "good" players that can sustain between 2-4 bb/100s, BUT these levels can be demoralizing at times because often the only tables available have 6 or more long-term winning semi-pro players.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

[ QUOTE ]
8.79 BB/100 in 28,000 hands on Bodog since May, when PT started tracking Bodog.

I'd have to dig out my stats on Party and other sites, but if I recall correctly the BB/100 was around 6 in something like 70,000 hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re-read the OP and with Mendacious's last post, sorry left the part out about the different levels.

17,500 hands at $400 PL 9.05 BB/100.
8,000 hands at $200 PL, 7.15 BB/100.
2,700 hands at $100 PL 14.0 BB/100.

The overwhelming # of these hands is full ring (at least 6 players).

I do not multi-table except in very rare instances where there is a second juicy table, 3-4 hours max. I have never been able to concentrate well enough to play more than one table with any success. This fits fine for Bodog where the bigger games generally have only one or two tables going at a time, if that.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

Isn't the answer dramatically different depending on which side of the fence you're on?

Here, inside the fence, the one we use to keep the rest of you (and the fun) out, we are limited to Stars, FT, UB, and Absolute, basically. And I think it's really hard to do much better than 2BB/100 over the long haul above $1 PL at those terribly overfished sites. (If anyone disagrees, I'd like to know.)

If you have access to Party and the other US-blocked sites, as I think Matt does (loc=Germany), those numbers are probably sustainable and realistic. But I don't, and I'm jealous.

Is the fence keeping you out or us in? I don't feel so free any more ....

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

5-10 ptbb/100 is possible at ft in fr (esp. if you exercise good game selection). note that sometimes it's easier to get higher win rates at higher levels because people will gamble with you. weak-tight games have a theoretical maximum win rate that is not very high (relatively speaking) and can be hard to achieve, imho.

as several excellent winning players will probably point out, however, you should be more concerned with your hourly earn rate than your ptbb/100 rate.

Re: plo8 and nlo8 pokertracker
 

[ QUOTE ]
Isn't the answer dramatically different depending on which side of the fence you're on?

Here, inside the fence, the one we use to keep the rest of you (and the fun) out, we are limited to Stars, FT, UB, and Absolute, basically. And I think it's really hard to do much better than 2BB/100 over the long haul above $1 PL at those terribly overfished sites. (If anyone disagrees, I'd like to know.)

If you have access to Party and the other US-blocked sites, as I think Matt does (loc=Germany), those numbers are probably sustainable and realistic. But I don't, and I'm jealous.

Is the fence keeping you out or us in? I don't feel so free any more ....

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, I think the FT and Stars games of today are tougher than Party was for a long time, and not having access to some softer sites defineately hurts winrate. Still, I think there are several good players in the 2-4 range and a few that exceed 5bb/100s even at Tilt and Stars at the $200 level and up.