3/6 turn
 

commerce 300/600
bb is the best player in the game. i have never played with him before. earlier he called me down with AJo UI on a board of Q8492 when i c/rd the flop and bet every street with KTs that missed. that was our first hand, and i think a lot of his play was "let's see what this [censored] has".

SB is a tricky LAG who plays well postflop, but sometimes can be insane. i have never played with her either. she earlier opened 74s utg+1.

i open the button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], sb 3bets, bb caps, i call.

flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

sb check, bb bets, i call, sb calls.

turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
sb check, bb bets, i.......

Re: 3/6 turn
 

Ugh tough spot, I get into this all the time cuz I peel flops light. I think this is a call though obviously my first instinct was raise. But BB was to know thats a particularly bad turn card so his turn bet is showing A LOT of strength and so I think we can rule out ace high for him. I think you do the SF thing and call and fold river unimproved.

-DeathDonkey

Re: 3/6 turn
 

are you really playing this game or is this one of those joke posts where your neighbor's roommate was actually the dealer?

Re: 3/6 turn
 

i'd fold the flop with sb left to act behind you. I'd call the turn.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

you playing in the 3/6? Dont leave Ill be there Wed!!!! Good Luck and just kidding....I raise the turn, but Im loose aggro [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And yes he can have A high...any medium pocket pr and if he 3 bones the turn then you just have to make a read, but most likely a call with 5 outs and fold unimproved.

I wouldnt want to let SB see river for one bet with KT or KQ and yes both peel flop after putting in 4 bets....you also might get TT in the SB to fold (small chance he has this exact hand but possible)

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'd fold the flop with sb left to act behind you. I'd call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

After playing with you (funky llama)and talking to others who played with you in the limit shootout, I doubt very seriously you would ever fold this for 1 bet on the flop...in fact you prob raise the flop.....

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
are you really playing this game or is this one of those joke posts where your neighbor's roommate was actually the dealer?

[/ QUOTE ]

does the hand become not worth discussing if your assessment is true?

Re: 3/6 turn
 

First thought was to raise/fold-check behind, but if BB is best player in game then he's probably going to be able to put you on exactly A9 or T9. Interesting spot.

Any reads?

Devo

Re: 3/6 turn
 

This is why I don't play 3-6 this game on a regular basis. I don't mean to hijack this thread, but can I ask some other questions about this hand and learn from you guys?

Even though A9s is a stronger hand than either the sb or bb is giving you credit for, I still HATE having to call two cold back to me. I prolly muck pre-flop. If it's short-handed I'm playing, but you didn't mention this.

The flop is close, but I guess you should continue with a couple of backdoor draws and a dry ace which might be good. Postion is key too, but I don't like the fact you have a sb who might be c/r'ng. This is where I often come apart at the seams in these games against really good players who don't put up with my shenanigans...

If I decide not to fold for 1 bet, I'd rather raise the bb myself hoping to define their hands better and use whatever my positional advantage is good for against top players. I'd just HATE getting whipsawed here. I'd rather they just reach out and grab $1200 from my stack and put it in the pot. But I suppose the sb doesn't have to c/r, so calling is ok?

The turn is also where I come apart, instinctively raising, getting 3-bet, calling hoping I have outs to improve, and then mucking a huge pot after I don't. That can't be right either. So because you hold an ace calling the turn is probably best. I'll follow this thread with interest. Thanks.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

I always thought my never peeling flops was an excuse to be weak tight like my nature. This hand reminds me why I don't do it nearly as often as most.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

I dont like the random overs or random Ace peels either and I will give the raisers a lot of credit here, but......

If this flop was j62 no club I fold but since we have a club and a j and 7 thus giving us a lot of cards we like and getting either 13 or 14 to 1 on a call I think a fold on this flop would be incorrect.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

vince,

what percentage of the time do you think the tricky lag checkraises this flop?

Out of the times that he does checkraise, what percentage does BB 3bet?

Re: 3/6 turn
 

I'm not sure if this matters, but for those who know them BB is Tommy and SB is Cece.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

Nice game and seat selection.....Having those 2 on your left is not a place you want to be....Neither of these people know you and I am sure they both have seen you as a 1 2 player, so the hand ranges here are a lot wider than most will think...I guarantee you they think you are the spot and easy....not cause you are, but because they will interpret you in the game as taking a shot and overly tight. I know he called you down with A high earlier, but that is just Tommy.

I definately raise the turn, for 2 reasons....1) They will both respect your raise since they dont see you as tricky or laggy....2) Tommy can have a lot of hands that either you can beat or he cant 3 bet.....knowing how Tommy will try to bully your type paying off here I think is a must.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

youre against two players who are tricky tough aggressive and like their hands apparently. a flop fold is most prudent.

once you get to the turn you should simply call down. sb's most likely hand is an A so you have her reverse dominated, no reason to shut her out.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

yes that does matter. definitely dont fold the turn and definitely do fold the flop.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

"what percentage of the time do you think the tricky lag checkraises this flop? Out of the times that he does checkraise, what percentage does BB 3bet?"

well said. whenever someone tries to tag along in these sort of spots aggressive regulars try and raise and reraise him out almost on principle. i think raising the flop trying to represent a J is better than calling. (folding still being the smartest option).

Re: 3/6 turn
 

"does the hand become not worth discussing if your assessment is true?"

if it was brian or mike as the button then the thread is definitely flawed because tommy and cc would react differently to them.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

Yeah it definitely matters if it's you or somebody else. It sure seems like it was, so it probably was. Honestly I'd probably raise and if tommy 3 bet call down cause what mike L hit on is right, i tihnk. He probably views you as a shot-taker and he's better than I am and even I would definitely react differently and try a little harder to run you over.

CC surely doesn't have to have anything. Her range is so incredibly wide and she probably thinks she can outplay the shot-taker and tommy is aware of this and wants to A) shut you out B) try to keep CC from taking adv of it.

Obviously either player could have a huge hand, but meh, if I was there I woulda probably called the flop in your shoes too. Given that I made it to the turn, I'm sure as hell raising. If I wasn't going to raise a 9 when the action went like this than I think you should just fold you hand on the flop.

The only way I'm folding this hand now is if somehow 4 bets go in on the turn. I'm convinced by that point that one of them can beat a 9.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nice game and seat selection.....Having those 2 on your left is not a place you want to be

[/ QUOTE ]

if only you could have seen who was on my right.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
are you really playing this game or is this one of those joke posts where your neighbor's roommate was actually the dealer?

[/ QUOTE ]

does the hand become not worth discussing if your assessment is true?

[/ QUOTE ]

did i claim it did? i was just wondering if you were really playing 300/600

Re: 3/6 turn
 

did he claim that you claimed it did?

Re: 3/6 turn
 

Hi Bob,

I would call on the turn. If CC checkraises the turn and Tommy 3-bets, they aren't trying to blow you out of the pot -- at least one of them has you smoked. If CC checkraises and Tommy calls, you call and fold on the river if Tommy calls, and call if Tommy folds (assuming no improvement). The reason for calling the turn instead of raising is because it's likely at least one of your opponents only has 3 outs vs your hand, so it's not as detrimental for you to allow the river to be seen for 1 bet in the times when you've got the best hand on the turn (Tommy will still probably bet the turn with AK, but, I would guess at least half the time Tommy's turn bet means he has you beat).

It's not out of CC's range to check/call a pocket pair on the flop, and likewise again on the the turn (or even checkraise the turn with it).

Additionally -- especially with your image -- calling gives you some extra bluffing opportunities on the river that you can semi-convincingly pull off... Say a ten or 8 (or maybe Queen too) come on the river and Tommy bets, I think you can profitably raise the river as a bluff and Tommy would lay down KK or AJ or something often to your raise because your line looks so much like KQ or QT (the hands that a T or 8 river can represent).

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
did he claim that you claimed it did?

[/ QUOTE ]

did he?

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
did he claim that you claimed it did?

[/ QUOTE ]

did he?

[/ QUOTE ]

did he claim that you claimed that he had claimed that you claimed it?

Re: 3/6 turn
 

You have to raise, you can't afford to give a free card in such a big pot. I don't plan on folding unless it's obvious you are beat. If you call, you are afraid and just want to make clear cut decisions.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

commerce 300/600
bb is the best player in the game. i have never played with him before. earlier he called me down with AJo UI on a board of Q8492 when i c/rd the flop and bet every street with KTs that missed. that was our first hand, and i think a lot of his play was "let's see what this [censored] has".

SB is a tricky LAG who plays well postflop, but sometimes can be insane. i have never played with her either. she earlier opened 74s utg+1.

i open the button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], sb 3bets, bb caps, i call.

flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

sb check, bb bets, i call, sb calls.

turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
sb check, bb bets, i.......called. i thought about raising but that sucks so i called. Cece folded. the river was a small card. Tommy bet and I called. he had 88.

Re: 3/6 turn
 

gh

Re: 3/6 turn
 

[ QUOTE ]
But BB was to know thats [9h] a particularly bad turn card so his turn bet is showing A LOT of strength


[/ QUOTE ]

Why is the 9h a particularly bad card from the BB's perspective?