turn spot
 

live game 9 handed
3 limpers to me in the CO and i raise A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] because i can, an expert 3bets out of the BB, limpers call, i call.

lots to the flop of T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
expert bets, 2 folds, call, i call.

3 to the turn: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] expert bets, call, my play?

Re: turn spot
 

I don't get pre-flop. If you're gonna raise because you can, how do you not 4 bet? You could've, right? Whatever reasons you had to raise 3 limpers the first time, only intensify when it comes back around to you for 3-bets. Only if the limpers are tight enough to fold marginal draws if the BB leads into you on the flop. But they don't seem that type if they called two cold ahead of you pre-flop.

As played, I think you can go either way. I doubt BB has an ace, but if he does, you're beat. If one of the limpers has a ten, so what? If they've got a flush draw, great, but that's two less of your suit to beat a better hand.

The more I think about it, calling seems best.

Re: turn spot
 

i think calling is the definitely the best play. fold out of the question obviosly on turn, and if you raise you will either knock out an inferior hand or get more action than you're willing to take bye a better hand.

Re: turn spot
 

anything but calling is stupid

Re: turn spot
 

Can't see much of an argument for anything but calling.

Re: turn spot
 

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anything but calling is stupid

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I agree calling is inferior, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's stupid.

Re: turn spot
 

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anything but calling is stupid

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I agree calling is inferior, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's stupid.

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did you misunderstand my post?

Re: turn spot
 

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anything but calling is stupid

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I agree calling is inferior, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's stupid.

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did you misunderstand my post?

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Oops, no. I mistyped mine. I meant to say: Calling is inferior, but I wouldn't go so far as to say raising is stupid.

I mean, raising is probably wrong, but OP is either ahead enough times, or has outs to win enough times to where I don't think it's entirely stupid. I see worse plays than this every day.

Re: turn spot
 

choose any option that doesnt include raising or folding

Re: turn spot
 

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anything but calling is stupid

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I agree calling is inferior, but I wouldn't go so far as to say it's stupid.

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did you misunderstand my post?

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Oops, no. I mistyped mine. I meant to say: Calling is inferior, but I wouldn't go so far as to say raising is stupid.

I mean, raising is probably wrong, but OP is either ahead enough times, or has outs to win enough times to where I don't think it's entirely stupid. I see worse plays than this every day.

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i think you mistyped again? you keep saying calling is inferior. anyway, i agree raising isn't a horrible mistake, but it's just clearly worse than calling, so why do it?

Re: turn spot
 

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i think you mistyped again? you keep saying calling is inferior. anyway, i agree raising isn't a horrible mistake, but it's just clearly worse than calling, so why do it?

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Because you can? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Re: turn spot
 

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I don't get pre-flop. If you're gonna raise because you can, how do you not 4 bet? You could've, right? Whatever reasons you had to raise 3 limpers the first time, only intensify when it comes back around to you for 3-bets.

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the limpers are drooling idiots, the BB is an expert. i had the best hand. BB just told me i no longer do. 4betting would be retarded.

Re: turn spot
 

really? drooling idiots are never limping in with better aces?

Re: turn spot
 

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really? drooling idiots are never limping in with better aces?

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no.

Re: turn spot
 

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I don't get pre-flop. If you're gonna raise because you can, how do you not 4 bet? You could've, right? Whatever reasons you had to raise 3 limpers the first time, only intensify when it comes back around to you for 3-bets.

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the limpers are drooling idiots, the BB is an expert. i had the best hand. BB just told me i no longer do. 4betting would be retarded.

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I respectfully think you should re-look at this. I'm not saying 4-betting is mandatory, but it certainly should be considered. That the BB is the only other player in the hand who ISN'T a drooling idiot is all the more reason to re-raise. He's the one you want to throw off. The others coming along for the ride just add to your share of equity, which isn't huge w/A2s, but isn't miniscule either.

I also think raising 3 limpers (even idiots) pf with A2, bedcause it's probably the best hand at the moment is a bit dubious. Your raising more for your implied odds than anything else with A2s. I actually like a 4-bet (after your 1st raise), more than an initial raise. -IMHO

Re: turn spot
 

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I don't get pre-flop. If you're gonna raise because you can, how do you not 4 bet? You could've, right? Whatever reasons you had to raise 3 limpers the first time, only intensify when it comes back around to you for 3-bets.

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the limpers are drooling idiots, the BB is an expert. i had the best hand. BB just told me i no longer do. 4betting would be retarded.

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I respectfully think you should re-look at this. I'm not saying 4-betting is mandatory, but it certainly should be considered. That the BB is the only other player in the hand who ISN'T a drooling idiot is all the more reason to re-raise. He's the one you want to throw off. The others coming along for the ride just add to your share of equity, which isn't huge w/A2s, but isn't miniscule either.

I also think raising 3 limpers (even idiots) pf with A2, bedcause it's probably the best hand at the moment is a bit dubious. Your raising more for your implied odds than anything else with A2s. I actually like a 4-bet (after your 1st raise), more than an initial raise. -IMHO

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preflop is marginal. the point of the post is the turn.

Re: turn spot
 

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really? drooling idiots are never limping in with better aces?

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no.

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wow i really think you're wrong here.

Re: turn spot
 

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really? drooling idiots are never limping in with better aces?

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no.

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wow i really think you're wrong here.

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any of them are raising an ace preflop 97% of the time.

Re: turn spot
 

My first thought was that a drooling idiot easily might limp (or overlimp), with hands like A7o, 33, etc. That's why I prefer an overlimp with A2s. But raising isn't terrible and I guess the question was about the turn... Which we agree on btw! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: turn spot
 

Lestat are you serious? Your initial post might be the worst I have ever read....4 betting here is borderline retarded we hava A2!!!! Raising preflop to get the button, take control of the pot vs the idiot limpers, and get marginal blinds to fold seems ok (not great not terrible) but 4 betting now is just dumb.....on flop you can raise for value or call you should have 8 flush outs and 3 Ace outs I would think (he should have big pr thus one less flush out). I think raising the turn is fine as no one has a 7 and you can chk the river if you dont improve if you feel he has AK rather than a big pr. It is hard to get reraised even by AK but if he does you have a few chop outs and several win outs.....calling is ok, but I dont think raising is horrible.

Re: turn spot
 

Vincevegas, there may be good reasons to raise the turn but if AK doesn't laugh and 3 bet then he is BADDDD. There is just no way we have AK beat here given the flop action.

-DeathDonkey

Re: turn spot
 

saying no way is wrong. we could have AT or TT, but I agree a good player should 3 bet AK, but I find that I get 3 bet in this spot way less than I should in the Commerce 1-2 games vs the regulars.

Re: turn spot
 

<font color="blue"> 4 betting here is borderline retarded we hava A2!!!! </font>

Retarded? How much does it cost?

"Buying" the button is nice, but (in my opinion), it's a bit overrated by lags looking for any excuse to raise. Overlimping with A2s is my default, unless it's simply to build a pot with a big drawing hand. And granted, A2s might be such a hand. But against people who play bad anyway, I just don't see the need to increase variance.

Re: turn spot
 

I would limp along preflop and see plenty of drooling retards limp with better Aces.

I think calling is the only play on the turn.

(The suggestion of 4-betting preflop seems pretty silly, but I don't think it matters either way.)

Re: turn spot
 

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any of them are raising an ace preflop 97% of the time.

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Them being this aggro PF doesn't seem congruent with them being retarded or with them limping.

Re: turn spot
 

How can you be so sure that three drooling limpers can't have A9-AJ? Basically I don't know why you started off defending the preflop raise by saying you have the best hand, since it could easily be right without that being the case.

Re: turn spot
 

that's what i say, but pokerbob disagrees so why fight it

Re: turn spot
 

i think pokerbob is v. bad if he thinks that..

esp in a live game

lol.

Re: turn spot
 

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i think pokerbob is v. bad if he thinks that..


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pokerbob is expert.

Re: turn spot
 

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i think pokerbob is v. bad if he thinks that..


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pokerbob is expert.

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expert people don't talk in 3rd person.

Re: turn spot
 

If it's a live game it's pretty easy to know what type of drooling idiot you are up against. If he's 40-ish, likes to watch football and crack open a beer, etc, then he knows that big cards don't like multiway action, so he raises an ace every time to get out the riff raff and prevent a suckout. You can tell he is this type by looking at him and/or watching him raise for an hour.

He is still a bad player because he's not aware how much a weak ace sucks in multiway pots, that 87o isn't drawing to much, etc.

Re: turn spot
 

I'm obviously terrible but why is this flop not a raise?

Re: turn spot
 

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I'm obviously terrible but why is this flop not a raise?

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because i don't have anything and the board is paired and i'm getting 3bet a lot and that sure would suck.

Re: turn spot
 

I like raising here. You're about even or maybe even slightly behind equity wise against the expert, but you're way ahead of the caller. Its a spot where u can afford to make a super thin value bet since you have a lot of ways to split or win if you are in fact behind. I think the pot is too large for either opponent to be folding slightly worse hands and of course there are all kinds of draws that you're charging. I'll probably check behind a blank river.

Re: turn spot
 

Pokerbob plays 300/600!

Re: turn spot
 

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Them being this aggro PF doesn't seem congruent with them being retarded or with them limping.

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That word is too complex for a Pbob post. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

JT