PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2.../luckgraph.png

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...lysisgraph.png

i understand the luck graph mean i'm a luckbox... but can anything be learned from the other graph?

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

Yeah, the first one shows expectation versus actuall winnings in pots where all the money went in before the river. Its an indication of wether or not you're running good/bad. You've run very good lately! My red one is still 20 % below the blue one after 300 all-in pots >_<

The other one shows:
Blue line - Your showdown winnings.
Red line - Expected showdown winnings.
When the blue line is above the red line it means you've been lucky in all-in situations, winning more than expected.

The green one is overall winnings. This one is lower than the two others because you lose money by folding before showdown. This is normal BTW. I cant remember seeing any graphs where somebody came out positive in pots that ended before showdown.

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

The fact the green line is below the blue line means you're losing money in pots that don't go to showdown. Whether this means you're chasing too many draws or folding too much I don't know.

Disclaimer: I might be completly wrong

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

PokerEV - BBV Thread

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

1st one means you´re a lucky bastard

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

The blue line shows the amount of attention being given to unimportant things, and the green line shows the amount of attention being being given to poker.

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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I cant remember seeing any graphs where somebody came out positive in pots that ended before showdown.

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I'm surprised at this, because that's almost the definition of playing good poker. Your steals should show a profit. Your cbets should show a profit. Your bluffs should show a profit. If they don't, why do them? Shania?

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

The fact that your green line is low means that you should look at hands where you didn't go to showdown. It doesn't necessarily mean you are playing them wrong, but it means you may be losing money here (or not making as much as you can).

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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I cant remember seeing any graphs where somebody came out positive in pots that ended before showdown.

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I'm surprised at this, because that's almost the definition of playing good poker. Your steals should show a profit. Your cbets should show a profit. Your bluffs should show a profit. If they don't, why do them? Shania?

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True, but it isn't just c-bets and bluffs that are reflected in the green line. Also factored in are things like money you lose to blinds, chasing draws w/ good odds but then the draw doesn't hit, and things like that. It's very common for actual winnings to be below showdown winnings for these reasons, although i have seen graphs where the lines are all about equal and a couple where the green does exceed the others.

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

Also, keep in mind that the PokerEV all-in graph doesn't really provide a complete picture of how you are running, because it doesn't factor in cooler situations.

For example, say you are dealt KK preflop five times, and each time you end up going all-in preflop. Each time you are up against AA. Let's say you lose four times and win one of those times.

According to the all-in graph, you would be running pretty much as expected. But considering the fact that each time you were dealt kings you were up against aces, most people would consider this running pretty badly. However, this wouldn't show up in the graph. This type of situational "running bad" is not reflected in PokerEV.


I remember once I had a set lose to a higher set three times within about 1000 hands. Now this is pretty awful luck if you ask me, but according to PokerEV I was running neutral.

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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although i have seen graphs where the lines are all about equal and a couple where the green does exceed the others.

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Got an example of say 20k+ hands?
I'd need a winrate of 21 bb/100 to bring the green line up to the blue line..

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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although i have seen graphs where the lines are all about equal and a couple where the green does exceed the others.

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Got an example of say 20k+ hands?
I'd need a winrate of 21 bb/100 to bring the green line up to the blue line..

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Check out this thread

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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although i have seen graphs where the lines are all about equal and a couple where the green does exceed the others.

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Got an example of say 20k+ hands?
I'd need a winrate of 21 bb/100 to bring the green line up to the blue line..

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I got one. My green graph is way higher than the other ones [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img].
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/8...kgraph2ik7.jpg
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/9...ckgraphnt3.jpg

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

I should probably have added that I was talking about micro stakes when I said I had never seen a winning graph where the green line was above the blue line...

At the higher levels I imagine its very common to have the green line above the blue line because you play more power poker up there, basing a lot of your winnings on moving people of hands, meaning you often take the worst of it when all the money goes in. Doyle even says this in Super System when he talks about where his profit comes from. He says that over 50 % of the time he's taking the worst of it when all the money go in, and he makes up for it by stealing pots.

BTW, thanks for the link Edu. Very interesting to see the graph showing a guys graphs as he moved through the levels from 25NL to 400NL


EDIT:
Spur posted while I was typing.
Wow, what stakes do you play Spur?

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

My graph is NL5 and NL10 only.

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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I should probably have added that I was talking about micro stakes when I said I had never seen a winning graph where the green line was above the blue line...

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True the nature of our opponents means they call too much and therefore LAGing it up makes no sense, we make money (or should be) VBing made hands = more showdowns

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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My graph is NL5 and NL10 only.

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V.impressive

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

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My graph is NL5 and NL10 only.

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Im suprised!
Are there less callingstations and more nits there?
I play NL50 and I couldnt imagine having a graph like yours..

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

I think it's not only positive to have a graph like that.
For example:
The green line gets higher when i flop a set on a dry board.
I bet out, he raises me, I 3bet and he folds.
If I would call the flop, check the turn, he bets a again, i call. On the river I bet, he calls and I win. My green line would be closer to the blue one, and I would have won more money.

Re: PokerEV graphs... what do they mean?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
although i have seen graphs where the lines are all about equal and a couple where the green does exceed the others.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got an example of say 20k+ hands?
I'd need a winrate of 21 bb/100 to bring the green line up to the blue line..

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I've got one as well. It seems to be the norm though for the green line to be below the red/blue line in the micro/small stakes games - which makes total sense, because you have to show down a winner in these games, so there isnt any chance to pick up a lot of pots by stealing.

And the inverse is also true. When you're playing against tighter, thinking opponents, who are willing to laydown hands (i.e. the solid players who populate the mid-high stakes), then you're going to make the majority of your money by winning pots that don't go to showdown. By definition, if you get all-in/to a showdown against a solid player, you likely won't have the best of it.

If there's one thing I've learned from all these analyses, it's that the ability to adjust is the most important part of winning at online poker at the moment. While I think that some of the pro's at certain limits are very talented, thinking individuals, I suspect the majority of them probably just lucked into the right strategy to beat their limit. I.e., being a total (thinking) LAGtard will beat up the TAGs at the higher limits, and at the lower limits being a nitty TAG will rake in the money, and everything in between. Always adjust to your table.

Finally, here's two graphs, one from 200NL ring and the other from 400NL 6max. Same player (me), one with the oh-so-elusive green line on top, the other with the green line on bottom.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...-14--58-16.png


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...9-14--6-14.png