AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

I'm having a rough time 3betting AQ from the blinds against a button steal lately it seems. I don't know how to handle these types of situations, villain in this situation is 25/18 and seems willing to mix it up a bit.

6-Handed all stacks 200

3 folds, Button raises to 7, Hero makes it 25 from the SB with AQo, Button calls.

Flop: K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

Hero leads 38 into 52.

Should I even be doing this? I assume pocket pairs are a large part of this range, and with this dry flop I'm likely to get peeled often, but just c/f seems silly. Meh.

Villain calls.

Turn: T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero ?

Well I definitely have some outs now. There's not much more than a PSB behind here, so I can't bet/fold, I can't check/call, etc. I guess it's just time to give up, but I'm out over 30BB and not really feeling too great about how things went.

Thoughts on preflop, flop cbet, and turn play (and river play if turn checks through and we're holding ace high)?

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

PF and flop look totally fine. Sometimes I fire again, but I usually just C/F here w/o a whole lot of history. If they are peeling w/ something like 77/99...they'll usually check the turn and give you a free shot at your 10 outer anyways.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

Do you ever bluff the river if the turn checks through and the river bricks out? I think 77/99 hands would fold a lot to a big bet on the end...

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

recently i was c/f flop but a lot of friends told me i was being way too passive lately. as a result i b/f floip and have been giving up soince then, in genreal. with 4 more outs to a straight your hand is still crap, so c?f is best

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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Do you ever bluff the river if the turn checks through and the river bricks out? I think 77/99 hands would fold a lot to a big bet on the end...

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Sometimes. OTOH, I take this line w/ AK a lot and seem to get looked up really light w/ it. It just depends on the opponent.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

I always wonder what a c/r on the flop would do in a situation like this. Does anyone have any experience on the success of c/r?

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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I always wonder what a c/r on the flop would do in a situation like this. Does anyone have any experience on the success of c/r?

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always gets called by whatever they bet

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

You tried to steal the pot on flop, with no success. There's no point to continue bluffing out of position, so c/f turn.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

I continuation bet virtually always here, and usually get folds. It's a very good board for it. He will be very scared of AA, AK, KK, unless he also has a good hand.

On the turn, I'm giving up (again, b/c by now I think it's likely he has a strong hand that he's not folding), and hoping he allows me to draw for free or very cheaply to my gutshot. If I get to the river, and an Ace comes, then I'm probably check-calling b/c I think he's more likely to bet a weaker hand in that spot than call with one.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

I like it. I bet a bit less on the flop and now check and hope for a free river.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

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Unless you have a read that he likes to float, I don't agree with the turn shove.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

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Unless you have a read that he likes to float, I don't agree with the turn shove.

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Me neither. Wihtout a read he'll call the flop with air close to never and AA/Kx/sets will be a too large part of his range compared to QQ/JJ/99 to make a shove +EV imo.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

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Unless you have a read that he likes to float, I don't agree with the turn shove.

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you dont really need a read to assume he can still have 99-QQ after the flop, unless hes some kind of ubernit.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

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Unless you have a read that he likes to float, I don't agree with the turn shove.

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Me neither. Wihtout a read he'll call the flop with air close to never and AA/Kx/sets will be a too large part of his range compared to QQ/JJ/99 to make a shove +EV imo.

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AA,sets and KX are raising the flop a good % of the time, 99-QQ isnt ever.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

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Unless you have a read that he likes to float, I don't agree with the turn shove.

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Me neither. Wihtout a read he'll call the flop with air close to never and AA/Kx/sets will be a too large part of his range compared to QQ/JJ/99 to make a shove +EV imo.

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AA,sets and KX are raising the flop a good % of the time, 99-QQ isnt ever.

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99-QQ are folding the flop a good % of the time, AA,sets and KX isnt ever.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

i disagree, unless OP is super tight then i think they are folding flop like 10% tops

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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[ QUOTE ]
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this is fine, hes floating at least one street w/ JJ/QQ/99 type hands, and may well be floating w/ air some % of the time. He folds all of that to a turn shove and you arent drawing dead when he calls

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Unless you have a read that he likes to float, I don't agree with the turn shove.

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you dont really need a read to assume he can still have 99-QQ after the flop, unless hes some kind of ubernit.

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I agree that he can have 99-QQ, and I absolutely float here with those hands in Villain's position against a straightforward (hopefully non-aggro) opponent who I have a read will give up on the turn when he doesn't have anything. It would be nitty not to do that some percentage of the time; that's good poker. But, I think it's very important to realize such floats should necessarily occur with smaller frequency than a call on the flop with a better hand than mid-pair -- particularly in a raised pot where you're about to be pot committed.

So, again, my view is that from Hero's perspective, in order for him to shove the turn, it's most sensible for him to have a read that Villain floats. Then, by all means shove...but not super often b/c then you really will get looked up by mp.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

ya i didnt mean it was standard, i just meant that its perfectly fine to do, and a K hi board is a fine board to do it on.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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i disagree, unless OP is super tight then i think they are folding flop like 10% tops

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I don't think pushing is terrible or anything, but I think c/f is better vs an unknown. I don't think AA/Kx/sets raise the flop a lot b/c it's so dry. I think we'll get called by QQ/JJ/99 a decent percentage, but far from 90.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

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i disagree, unless OP is super tight then i think they are folding flop like 10% tops

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I think it's not advisable to call here with mid-pair very often, unless of course you have a good read. It's just a mid-pair hand in a raised pot, with a King on the flop.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

Check turn and v most villains bluff shove river on any heart or any card > 7 (except another K).

If villain will fold a pp to your second barrel on the turn, then he will also fold it on the river to this sequence.

Re: AQ - Firing 2 Barrels in a 3bet Pot
 

Hey thanks for the responses all, esp Future/Nick/Stone - very helpful discussion for me.