Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Michael Righi

Cliff Notes:
Man makes purchase at Circuit City, refuses to show security guard his bag and is detained. Man calls cops, proves he wasn't a shoplifter but refuses to show cop his driver's license (only gives his name) and is arrested.

Slashdot discussion

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

A bunch of posters will now reply calling this guy a "douchebag" for not showing his receipt to the store employee, and will tell us that the guy "deserved what happened to him".

http://www.infonavigate.com/travels/...0-%20Sheep.jpg

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

A stubborn idiot, that is all wanted to prove a point and did, congrats guy.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

OP sucks.

Good story though---there are several similar to this one (one at TigerDirect) where the police actually showed up and took the customer's side, leading to termination of the employee that tried to detain the customer.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

yeah this reminds me of that costco thread where people were talking about how you don't actually have to show them your receipt.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/9...ouspigspx6.jpg

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

dude should probably choose a different time to make a stand against the man than when he is out of town visiting family.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
A stubborn idiot, that is all wanted to prove a point and did, congrats guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

Change "idiot" to "guy," and get rid of all the sarcasm at the end, and I agree whole-heartedly.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

I remember seeing a black guy on TV who lived in Beverly Hills.
He refused to carry ID when walking around his neighborhood on general principle, and would constantly get stopped by police on suspicion of being black in Beverly Hills.
Hilarity ensues.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
dude should probably choose a different time to make a stand against the man than when he is out of town visiting family.

[/ QUOTE ]

Something tells me that this wasn't the first time that he had refused to show his receipt at a Circuit City. It's just the first time that a Circuit City's employees decided to take the law into their own hands.

I agree with the guy in principle. My only beef with this guy is that he *knows* that this is the way Circuit City works. If he doesn't like their policy, he really shouldn't be shopping there. However, this still doesn't excuse the way the Circuit City employees acted, or excuse the cop arresting him without a valid reason.

The cop arresting him was just retarded. Hopefully the cop will end up being punished for his stupidity when the guy he unlawfully arrested sues the police department.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

i read the whole story.

and i wish i had an eloquent response, but i dont

this guy is an [censored].

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
yeah this reminds me of that costco thread where people were talking about how you don't actually have to show them your receipt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think Costco is a little different as you sign a contract that states they may check your bag and receipt as you leave.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Sometimes being right doesn't make you less of a douche.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Yeah who needs that constitution anyway? Some of you make me sick.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah who needs that constitution anyway? Some of you make me sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has anyone said it wasn't a wrongful arrest?

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

LFS said it right, though. This guy is 100% right, the store and cop are 100% in the wrong. But he's clearly a massive, massive tool who is incredibly impressed with himself for not being a sheep like everyone else. It's a Thoreauesque act of civil disobedience there.

Instead of showing his bag and going on about his day he made a little stand and inconvenienced the hell out of a whole bunch of people.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[censored] that. Some BS Circuit City security cowboy wants to play tough and the cops come and make a wrongful arrest and the guy refusing to show his receipt is the d-bag? Come on. He has a right not to show his ID. I fail to see how you're a d-bag for exercising essentially a privacy right. Inconvenienced some people? Get real. If people didn't have this absurd "if you see something say something" vigilante drivel pounded into their already thick skulls by our fearless leadership then maybe the employees would have acted right and ignored the guy in the first place. If he's stealing you can call the police, or better yet you can review the surveillance video in the store (which takes 1-2 minutes max) and confirm that he hadn't stolen anything.

And a bit off topic but FWIW companies like this (large retail chains that employ security personal) get sued every year because of over-zealous security roughing up customers. Mostly innocent customers. Wal-Mart is the biggest offender here.

These dudes work in a store. They are not police. If they want to handle it they can check the tape and call the cops. That's why we have police. To catch criminals. Not to arrest people for using their legal rights.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Not a very good job of sticking it to the man.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Nice. I'm happy someone has the free time to take stands like this.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not a very good job of sticking it to the man.

[/ QUOTE ]

Has it occurred to anyone that if ANY of the other parties involved in this incident had acted the way that they are supposed to act, this never would have been an issue? If the employees don't physically detain him, this is not a story. If the cop doesn't wrongfully arrest him, this is not a story. Blaming this dude is so [censored] stupid.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Nobody is blaming him. You're so up on your high horse that you're missing the point. Being right doesn't preclude being a toolbox.

And in your haste to defend Ghandi Mk. II here, you've accidentally wandered into saying some pretty stupid things. Your last post(restated) alleges that stores do not have the right to attempt to prevent shoplifting, if they see someone they believe is shoplifting they should check the security tape and then call the police rather than detaining them and investigating the shoplifting in person.

The Circuit City guy could've "won" this situation by accusing the douchebag of stealing. There's nothing illegal about being wrong, his mistake was admitting that he had no reason to detain the douche.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes being right doesn't make you less of a douche.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're not wrong Walter, you're just an a-hole
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7513/lebowskirs2.jpg

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

After reading the posts here I was prepared to hate this guy when I read the article, but after reading it, good for him.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

mbillie1,

Everything you're saying about this guy's rights etc etc etc is absolutely correct. I've made the judgment that this guy is a douche based on the fact that he's flipping out about something relatively innocuous. Choosing this kind of situation to make your stand against the man just seems absurd to me. Further, he's chosen to do so in as dramatic a way as possible so as to draw as much attention to himself as possible. You think while all this was happening he wasn't thinking "Man, this is going to look so sweet on my blog and sound so awesome to chicks right before I whip out my acoustic guitar and sing "Ohio"."? It's just annoying, and I bet he's really annoying, too.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
Nobody is blaming him. You're so up on your high horse that you're missing the point. Being right doesn't preclude being a toolbox.

And in your haste to defend Ghandi Mk. II here, you've accidentally wandered into saying some pretty stupid things. Your last post(restated) alleges that stores do not have the right to attempt to prevent shoplifting, if they see someone they believe is shoplifting they should check the security tape and then call the police rather than detaining them and investigating the shoplifting in person.

The Circuit City guy could've "won" this situation by accusing the douchebag of stealing. There's nothing illegal about being wrong, his mistake was admitting that he had no reason to detain the douche.

[/ QUOTE ]

I fail to see whatsoever how it's a "tool" move to exercise your rights. My bad.

And FWIW most stores policies are not to physically detain shoplifters; I'm not claiming to know what the laws concerning that type of thing are. I would be a little surprised if "suspected thieves" could be physically detained by store security, but not stunned. The mistake the employees made was overstepping their bounds. The mistake the cop made was being a typical ego-tripping a-hole cop. The mistake the dude made was what? Being a stickler about his rights as a citizen?

High horse or not, I fail to see how you can side against this guy / fault this guy / whatever.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
You think while all this was happening he wasn't thinking "Man, this is going to look so sweet on my blog and sound so awesome to chicks right before I whip out my acoustic guitar and sing "Ohio"."? It's just annoying, and I bet he's really annoying, too.

[/ QUOTE ]

But how could this guy have known that it would have transpired this way? I mean, as this guy is refusing to show the employees his receipt, how does he know they aren't just going to let it go? How does he know the cop isn't going to show up and say "well, everything's fine here, have a nice day" ? I mean, yeah the guy is being a nit about it... but it IS about his rights, that's sort of acceptable nit-ground. I'm not buying that this guy is so psychic that he saw this through from the beginning...

edit for clarity: it's unlawful for him to be arrested for refusing to show his ID. If you're claiming he did this just to make a scene, you're essentially claiming that either 1) he knew somehow that this cop would arrest him unlawfully or 2) unlawful arrests of this nature are more common than the correct procedure. In either case, isn't that more the more bothersome aspect of this story, and not this guy being a nit? I mean if I am pulled over and say "I do not consent to any searches of my vehicle" and I am arrested unlawfully, does it make me some sort of punk making a cheap stand against the man? No, it just means I expected the lawful behavior to have been followed, which would have resulted in my never having been arrested in the first place, which in turn would have lead to my never having been e-famous for it, etc.

and edit: I'm sure I'd hate this dude if I met him. I hate pretty much everyone with a blog about him or her self. But I just don't get how out of the entire story, 3/4 of the forum seems to have "hmm, this guy's a d-bag" as the first thing that comes to mind. Why not "wow, don't the police know the laws they're supposedly enforcing?" or something... I dunno.

I may also just be being a huge tool about this myself. lol.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Seems like the cop was in the right based upon the guys timeline and how the supreme court ruled a few years ago. During a Terry Stop, it is illegal (not sure about all the states, but Nevada for sure, where the Supreme Court case was initiated) to not show your ID. In this case the man was also charged with obstruction. If the officer is asking you to show him your ID because he suspects a crime has/is/or is going to be commited, you have to show him. I'm not saying I think this is right or wrong, or our rights are or are not being violated, but by the letter of the law and the rulings of the Supreme Court, this officer acted correctly, if I'm reading this all right.

According to his blog, the cop asked for ID before going through his bag to verify that no crime had been committed. Its a bit odd since he called the cops himself, but for the people saying he was wrongfully arrested, I don't think he really was.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/03-5554.ZS.html

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
The Court is now of the view that Terry principles permit a State to require a suspect to disclose his name in the course of a Terry stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

...still not seeing any mention of having to present identification, only to identify oneself.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]

According to his blog, the cop asked for ID before going through his bag to verify that no crime had been committed. Its a bit odd since he called the cops himself, but for the people saying he was wrongfully arrested, I don't think he really was.


[/ QUOTE ]

On his blog, Righi quotes from the Ohio stop and identify law

2921.29 (C) Nothing in this section requires a person to answer any questions beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth. Nothing in this section authorizes a law enforcement officer to arrest a person for not providing any information beyond that person’s name, address, or date of birth or for refusing to describe the offense observed.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
Petitioner Hiibel was arrested and convicted in a Nevada court for refusing to identify himself to a police officer during an investigative stop involving a reported assault.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't read beyond this as the legal speak gives me head aches. Is this case about failure to identify one's self or is it about failure to show ID?

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

I don't really see how you can consider this a terry stop.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

he broke the law

obstruction of justice
he deserves it

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The Court is now of the view that Terry principles permit a State to require a suspect to disclose his name in the course of a Terry stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

...still not seeing any mention of having to present identification, only to identify oneself.

[/ QUOTE ]

From reading http://www.papersplease.org/hiibel/facts.html and some other things it sounds like the police officer was demanding to see 'papers.' I think when the court says 'identify oneself' they mean with a legal document. Again, I may be reading this all wrong, but the entire time I was thinking they meant a document, and not just a vocal 'I'm John Smith'. After reading his official website, he was arrested for refusing to hand over his ID.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

This thread is so ironic. I walked into a Right Aid today, the store detector thing went off as soon as i walked in. I've actually noticed this in another store when wearing one set of my pants. So I shop around, get what I came for and pay for it. I then walk out, again beep, and I walk down the street and I hear a 'HEY!!' really loud, so I take my ipod out of my ears and this fat dude is like "you beeped leaving the store"... I reply "I beeped entering the store", he's like "oh well they told me you didnt beep when you came in, did you buy anythin from somewhere else today or something", I'm like "nah, but if you're really interested", and began to show that my pockets aside from my wallet and ipod were empty. Then he said don't worry about it I just had to check, I'm all okay... and went on my way. He had laughed and said that he tried talking to me in the store but I couldn't hear him because of my ear phones. He looked like a bouncer at a club, but was really just doing his job.

I suppose I could have been like "[censored] YOU, THERE'S NO WAY I'M SHOWING YOU WHATS IN MY POCKET OR LETTING YOU EXAMINE MY BAG GO CHECK THE SECURITY CAMERA", but I really didn't want to create a dramatic situation where I know I'm in the clear. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be polite.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
I don't really see how you can consider this a terry stop.

[/ QUOTE ]

It would be a clear cut Terry Stop if the store had called him. Him calling them himself makes it a little different, since he called them about being detained. But after he gets there and the store says he wouldn't let them check his bag he is suspicious a crime has been committed. Therefore it changes to a Terry Stop against the guy with the bag.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
he broke the law

obstruction of justice
he deserves it

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for reading the thread before sharing your illuminating insight. You probably thought Rodney King deserved to be beaten and Amadou Diallo deserved to be shot to death. I hope you're enjoying ruining the country for those of us who care about our rights.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
This thread is so ironic. I walked into a Right Aid today, the store detector thing went off as soon as i walked in. I've actually noticed this in another store when wearing one set of my pants. So I shop around, get what I came for and pay for it. I then walk out, again beep, and I walk down the street and I hear a 'HEY!!' really loud, so I take my ipod out of my ears and this fat dude is like "you beeped leaving the store"... I reply "I beeped entering the store", he's like "oh well they told me you didnt beep when you came in, did you buy anythin from somewhere else today or something", I'm like "nah, but if you're really interested", and began to show that my pockets aside from my wallet and ipod were empty. Then he said don't worry about it I just had to check, I'm all okay... and went on my way. He had laughed and said that he tried talking to me in the store but I couldn't hear him because of my ear phones. He looked like a bouncer at a club, but was really just doing his job.

I suppose I could have been like "[censored] YOU, THERE'S NO WAY I'M SHOWING YOU WHATS IN MY POCKET OR LETTING YOU EXAMINE MY BAG GO CHECK THE SECURITY CAMERA", but I really didn't want to create a dramatic situation where I know I'm in the clear. Sometimes you just have to suck it up and be polite.

[/ QUOTE ]

Or that maybe this situation is entirely different from that situation.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

[ QUOTE ]
he broke the law

obstruction of justice
he deserves it

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought we had the right against self incrimination.

Re: Man Arrested for Refusing to Show Drivers License
 

With the cop thing yeah Vyse, but don't you realize it's pretty similar except for the guy not beeping when he left the store. The employee for whatever reason thought the guy may have lifted something and basically questioned him just like I was, however since the guy was not polite at all or compliant he escalated it into something it never should have been.