200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $328.05
BB: $200.00
UTG: $125.65
MP: $195.95
CO: $172.60
BTN: $193.95

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain is p0ck3tp3ar and is 25/17/1.8 over 400 hands. Don't think I've played with him before and he just came to the table. Don't think he knows anything about me.</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">MP raises to $8.00</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $8.00, <font color="red">Hero raises to $32.00</font>, <font color="red">BB raises all-in to $200.00</font>, Hero?

Think his range is like KK+, AK. His shove could weigh it towards AK though so not sure.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Fold. Don't think the dead money is anywhere near enough to make up for the times you're behind AA,KK. I lieks shoving here more and more with AA,KK as people always put you on AK.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

$170 for $250 in a 2:3 shot against his range. Smells like a fold to me, even if you move his range a little closer to AK.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

call:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.143% 59.92% 00.22% 172384116 626394.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 39.857% 39.64% 00.22% 114030168 626394.00 { QQ }

168/448=0.375

+ he also could be doing this with QQ and air some % of the time

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Usually call here.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Yeah call given the stove results. Also its great for you if he only occasionally does this with JJ/TT/air, plus AA/KK is usually more likely to 4bet rather than shove.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Stove results are unweighted. I never do this with AK. It's also a very different situation to original preflop raiser pushing, this is never a bluff.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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Stove results are unweighted. I never do this with AK.

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Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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Stove results are unweighted. I never do this with AK.

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Just because you don't doesn't mean other people don't.

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True but it's marginal at best (but -EV in my view). Why risk a whole stack with no/v little edge?

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

what? its obvious +EV according to pokerstove results and ive given him tightest pushing range (if you consider villain is reg which seems to be according to his stats/pro nickname). i cant see any reg not pushing AK there in BB

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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what? its obvious +EV according to pokerstove results and ive given him tightest pushing range (if you consider villain is reg which seems to be according to his stats/pro nickname). i cant see any reg not pushing AK there in BB

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No you haven't, tightest pushing range is KK+. Some people fold AK here, only a complete donk pushes anything other than AK+ given the action (QQ makes hardly ny difference regardless and is unlikely). Pokerstove shows you have a 2% edge with all the assumptions on the optimistic side so if you want to gamble a whole stack on at best a 2% edge then go ahead.

I know AK isn't in CR advised starting hnds for a start.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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i cant see any reg not pushing AK there in BB

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I fold there if Imrahil is nitty/doesn't squeeze very often.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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i cant see any reg not pushing AK there in BB

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I fold there if Imrahil is nitty/doesn't squeeze very often.

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Thankyou.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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i cant see any reg not pushing AK there in BB

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I fold there if Imrahil is nitty/doesn't squeeze very often.

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Thankyou.

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You don't kniw if Imrahil is nitty or not though....

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Guys, villain has never played with me before. This was his first hand at the table. I've never seen him at 200nl. I think he was playing 600nl HU and he's played 400nl and 10/20 limit before. He has no clue how I play as far as I know.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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i cant see any reg not pushing AK there in BB

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I fold there if Imrahil is nitty/doesn't squeeze very often.

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Thankyou.

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You don't kniw if Imrahil is nitty or not though....

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True but best case scenario is he isn't, in which case you have a tiny edge. Worst case scenario is he isn't and you're way behind. Why put chips in under those circumstances.

You also don't have to be nitty to fold AK there.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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Guys, villain has never played with me before. This was his first hand at the table. I've never seen him at 200nl. I think he was playing 600nl HU and he's played 400nl and 10/20 limit before. He has no clue how I play as far as I know.

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I'm putting him down for shoving AK like 99% of the time then.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

easy fold.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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Stove results are unweighted. I never do this with AK. It's also a very different situation to original preflop raiser pushing, this is never a bluff.

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Have you played 200nl lately? What makes you think shoving AK here is a bluff?

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

calls

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

folding AK on BB even vs nit is terrible in 5 handed game...
(even if he's only 3betting JJ+AQ+ -which is supernitmode- pushing AK there is profitable)

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

I dunno, I think this is a call because of the pot odds. I think maybe you should make it 40-45 the first time tho so you have better odds for a clear call.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

The original raiser is 12/10. Not sure if villain knows that or not.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

i definitely would call here

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

[ QUOTE ]
call:
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 60.143% 59.92% 00.22% 172384116 626394.00 { KK+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 39.857% 39.64% 00.22% 114030168 626394.00 { QQ }

168/448=0.375

+ he also could be doing this with QQ and air some % of the time

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Thanks for the stats but put a "0" in front of that % and we are straight.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

i made this exact same play with jj the other day, so i think if he could have a wider range

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Yeah I've occasionally seen TT/JJ/AQ/air here before. Uncommon yes, but it still should definitely be included in his range.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

pocketpair or whatever his name is a good player and is cogniscent of how the other players play/has pokertracker.

If he's pushing 56o to pick up the money in the pot after a 12/10 nit raised and a TAG 3 bet this nit from MP then lets see I'd be more than surprised.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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Yeah I've occasionally seen TT/JJ/AQ/air here before. Uncommon yes, but it still should definitely be included in his range.

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Agreed. I sigh and call unless I'm real sure he's folding AK. Enough people know about squeezes now that I have to think Villain thinks Hero is light.

Whoever said you shouldn't risk your stack for a 2% edge must have bankroll issues, and it's more than 2% anyway for the above reason.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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pocketpair or whatever his name is a good player and is cogniscent of how the other players play/has pokertracker.

If he's pushing 56o to pick up the money in the pot after a 12/10 nit raised and a TAG 3 bet this nit from MP then lets see I'd be more than surprised.

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Apparently he doesn't know anything about the players at this level according to OP.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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Yeah I've occasionally seen TT/JJ/AQ/air here before. Uncommon yes, but it still should definitely be included in his range.

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Agreed. I sigh and call unless I'm real sure he's folding AK. Enough people know about squeezes now that I have to think Villain thinks Hero is light.

Whoever said you shouldn't risk your stack for a 2% edge must have bankroll issues, and it's more than 2% anyway for the above reason.

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I've never seen someone push air after a raise a call and a reraise from 3 diff players. And I didn't say I fold for a 2% edge I said I'd fold when a 2% edge is the best case scenario. More often than not you see AA/KK here.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

1 vote for call

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

I don't know how to put this but for those that saying call I really think the best you can hope for is a coinflip here from this guy and usually you are an 80% dog.

Do you want to get your money in hoping its a race?

That seems really newbish and tournament player like but its the honest truth here.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Dude, you're still in a four-way pot. Stove results are incomplete because they didn't include the other two players in the hand. It's possible the original raiser has you beat. Easy fold.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

If you are with qq here and all of u are wanting to fold this shows how profitable bb shove is with Ax

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

Oh, the other two players folded.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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If you are with qq here and all of u are wanting to fold this shows how profitable bb shove is with Ax

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I don't think doing this w/ Ax vs an unknown is very profitable especially where the original raiser is left to act and is probably unknown as well.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

thats fine. I was just maling a claim [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

umm...even if the other two guys folded I think this may still be a fold.

The pot odds in Toni's post have been miscalculated, haven't they?

Pot is $248 (8 + 8 + 32 + 200)
$168 to call (200 - 32)
168/(248+168) =
168/416 =
40.38% pot odds, not 37.5% as previously stated
39.8% Stove odds

so now it's slightly -EV. Still calling?

And jeecross points out that stove results are unweighted. If you give more weight to pushing with AK here, then maybe call. I personally don't; I think AK is much more likely to call than push here, especially since he's in position, and AA/KK is much more likely to push than call here. fold.

Re: 200NL- Squeeze QQ and BB shoves
 

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umm...even if the other two guys folded I think this may still be a fold.

The pot odds in Toni's post have been miscalculated, haven't they?

Pot is $248 (8 + 8 + 32 + 200)
$168 to call (200 - 32)
168/(248+168) =
168/416 =
40.38% pot odds, not 37.5% as previously stated
39.8% Stove odds

so now it's slightly -EV. Still calling?

And jeecross points out that stove results are unweighted. If you give more weight to pushing with AK here, then maybe call. I personally don't; I think AK is much more likely to call than push here, especially since he's in position, and AA/KK is much more likely to push than call here. fold.

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there is NOOOOO way that ak calling here would ever be a good play.