Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

Villain and I both have about 2500. He raises to 60 from early position, 3 people call, and I call with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] out of the big blind, so 300 in the pot. Villain is somewhat tricky and can raise preflop with all kinds of stuff. He is not afraid to continue stabbing at the pot with nothing after the flop, and in fact he isn't so great at picking his spots to bluff. Also, I know he is capable of laying down decent hands if he feels he is beat.

Flop comes 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. As I am thinking about what to do, villain bets 225 out of turn, seems like a genuine mistake. I decide to check and just let him bet. Everyone else folds and I just call.

Turn is 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and I check again. He bets 300. It's a relatively small bet, so I don't put him on a monster at this point, but besides that he could have all kinds of stuff. I decide to just call. He could draw out on me on the river, but I figure the extra value I can get when he isn't drawing or doesn't hit makes up for it.

River is a 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and I weak lead for 300. I am hoping to get a call from a one pair hand or a raise from a nothing hand. Comments on all streets would be appreciated.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

c/r flop or c/r turn, if hes raising all stuff this board might aswell have hit him.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

Live play?

Raise the flop.

Raise the turn.

Dependent on the results of these actions, river should play itself.

Don't c/c sets live, you are basically throwing money in the garbage. He may bluff frequently, but not often enough to counteract the times he has a legit hand here and will call your raises.

* I just noticed you checked and he led out after accidentally betting. In this case, change my thought process to either you leading out (preferred) or C/Ring.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

I think the lead is too weak on the river, because it seems like a blockbet from a scared T. What do you do when he raises to 1200, fold?

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think the lead is too weak on the river, because it seems like a blockbet from a scared T. What do you do when he raises to 1200, fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I want him to raise. I plan to call if he does.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

This seems like an OK line of thinking if you have this guy pegged as a maniac who will raise a very marginal hand for value, or bluff a lot. As to the former, he really can't be value raising many hands on this river, so your lead out/call plan has to be one designed to pickoff air.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

Actually now I am thinking that check-calling the flop wasn't horrible, but I should definitely check raise the turn because at that point I could be representing a big draw and maybe if he has an overpair he will convince himself to go all the way with it.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

you are deep with a set vs an opponent who, from you description, seems like not a very good post flop player. check raise this flop, build a big pot, and allow him to make a mistake on the later streets.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
This seems like an OK line of thinking if you have this guy pegged as a maniac who will raise a very marginal hand for value, or bluff a lot. As to the former, he really can't be value raising many hands on this river, so your lead out/call plan has to be one designed to pickoff air.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I definitely don't see him valuebetting worse there. I am looking to get a call from a worse hand or a raise from complete air.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

It will be tough for you to convince him that you have turned a big draw, simple because there are few hands you could have called preflop and on the flop with that are now a big draw. Unless you somehow have 4s3s or peeled with AsKs etc, you can't really have a big draw on the turn.

This much being said, you can still CR the turn and have him go all the way with it because he will do so with an overpair. It would be more because he's a live player with an overpair than it would be him thinking he has call in case you're drawing.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

I would take a step back here. When this flop comes down, your goal should be to get all of the money in on this hand. The analysis should be made with that in mind. Ideally, you want to get it in before the river or be in a posiition on the river where it is just going in anyway. As I see it, on the flop, you have three possible plans:

lead flop and push to a raise
c/r flop, lead turn
c/c flop, c/r turn

I like the options in the order presented. Option three -- c/c flop, c/r turn -- has too many ways to go wrong. The interesting thing is his out of turn flop bet. This is a real feel/read thing, and I wasn't there, but based on your description it sounds like it wasn't an angle. It also doesn't sound like a continuation bet with air. If you thought that there was any chance that he would raise if you bet on the flop, that is definately what I would do. Otherwise, I would have c/r'd on the turn to about 800 and then bet about 1000 on virtually any turn.

Generally speaking, I think that trying to milk in these types of situations is not a good idea. He may not pay off on later streets -- you said he can lay down -- and he can always get there. Using this particular example, a hand with a 6 in it or 77 would definately seem to be part of his range.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

Raise flop to $700 and get him to stack off with AT. If he is really aggressive I don't mind calling him down and then raise the river, but I doubt his aggression level warrants all that. I would raise the turn though to $900 and shove pretty much any river card. This deep you should be trying to get the money in, not play cute and hope he bluffs off a couple hundred bucks.

As played I think your river line is ok if he is the type to bluff raise blocking bets.

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

didnt read HH at all. CALL strickly based on the title of thread...

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

max play i enjoy here is c/c flop then c/r turn to an amt that he will call or 3b all in with TPTK-AA/bluff/draw

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

btw good players make a large % of their profits from vomitous plays like your turn call on that board
wtfwtf why would you do that to yourself?

think about how if you had c/r that turn or 3bet pushed you would have avoided this situation, which happens with any spade, 2, 6, 7, A, etc etc. your c/c makes me want to cry as does your reasoning about "extra value"

Re: Foxwoods 5/10 NL slowplayed set against guy who can bluff
 

c/c c/r is fine or c/c lead even. bet out bigger on river as played.