76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
3 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
Button: $89.05
SB: $140.27
Hero: $128.50

Pre-flop: (3 players) Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $2</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $7</font>, SB calls.

Flop: 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($14, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $3</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($20, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $12.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises to $37</font>




Reads and thoughts...
the game is 3 handed and and i have been playin pretty laggy. villian was standing up to me more so then the other player but was basically gettin run over/ owned up to this point. none of his tricks had been working wut so ever because i was hitting hands/making perfect descions up to this point in the hand.

villian had played 35 21 4.5 my image was like 40 35 5 at the time. villian didnt seem bad tho tbh. i was getting my fair share of cards when playin hands against him and i think he was tryin to compensate for that by really couldnt do too much due to how aggro i am. seemed like a reasonable player tho.

a hand ago i was btn and raised with QTs. villian in this hand 3 bet smallish to like 5.5. i called and flopped a top pair queen kicker. i called his cbet the turn checked thru and river blanked and i called a smallish river bet and he showed down 65s for nada.

in this hand the preflop 3 bet is pretty standard. 3 handed 76s is solid and i have position. his flop bet is rather suspect tho. my gut feeling was to obv raise tha shizzy up. but i figured with my image and the fact that villian could b steaming from the last hand i would chill and just call and see if i can steal it away. i do in fact have a gutter draw so it is not like i am drawin dead or n e thing.

turn is a ballin card obv. and again villian makes this weak ass bet into me. i have just picked up 4 more outs in equity and decide a c/r here would b scarier then [censored]. he really cant justify a call with n e one pair hands and the amount of 2 pair options is rather limited. so really he can only call my 3 bet with a set imo.

so wut do u think??? sexy?? or not??? i kno giving my oponent credit to fold tp is often a mistake but meh. this looks like a sick spot for it imo.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

would it be sick bad to minraise flop, induce a 3bet then 4bet him to fold?

i do this but generally i bet small to be raised then i 3bet...

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

Your play doesn't make too much sense imo. like what hand would u just call a weak flop bet then raise turn... 44 88 99 for a average player at nl50, but he may think you to not play them so standard...

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
would it be sick bad to minraise flop, induce a 3bet then 4bet him to fold?

i do this but generally i bet small to be raised then i 3bet...

[/ QUOTE ]wow this is insane and nothing i would ever fathom without the sickest of reads or i could see his cards. if he 3 bets over my minraise i dont expect him to fold to a shove often.

[ QUOTE ]
Your play doesn't make too much sense imo. like what hand would u just call a weak flop bet then raise turn... 44 88 99 for a average player at nl50, but he may think you to not play them so standard...

[/ QUOTE ] i mean i could have n e set on the flop really. KK cuz i 3 bet pre. i could have turned a set of 9s, i could have AA, or even AK really. there r a decent number of hands that i can have that are extremely strong atm.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

I usually just pot flop in situations like these, but this line is approved too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

that's a fine play especially because the villian bets so small on the flop it kinda shows weakness, but could be KKK as well or he's scared to commit his big stack.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

you say he is decent which makes me think wtf is he doin w/ this weak ass flop donk bet?? I dunno if he wants to get raised or if he is makin a like block bet w/ a weak hand or what? either way seems pretty bad. but i typically raise here on the flop but I dont mind callin tho w/ the intention to make a move on the turn esp if he checks to us. But then he once again makes a weaksauce bet and by now it seems like he very likely has a weak hand so the raise is fine w/ me esp since we pick up a few more outs and we are both deep. I think raise to like 27-20ish tho,probably accomplishes the same thing but not that big of a deal. If he fires like PSB tho I probably become a nit and fold.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

raise the flop hard with the gutsa, i like $12. if he calls, he'll likely check turn and we can have a free shot at whatever we got. Let it go if he shoves. Also lets us take control of the hand.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

in this instance what do u all think is the best way to gain EV in the hand? fire the flop with a psr or call and then make a raise on the turn when it is favorable.

if i wait till the turn it will cost me a lot more to do it but i think it works more often (because a turn raise is much scarier then a flop raise obv) and i can also just fold if a bad turn hits or he pots the turn or sumtin like that. so not to sure which is the best way to attack the hand.

i used to pretty much raise the flop every hand but have been makin it an effort to do this more often or late. i assume it is a good idea to have this play in my arsenal but not too sure wut kind of a frequency i should b doin this with. (note that i play hyper aggro and pretty loose as my normal game)

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
in this instance what do u all think is the best way to gain EV in the hand? fire the flop with a psr or call and then make a raise on the turn when it is favorable.

if i wait till the turn it will cost me a lot more to do it but i think it works more often (because a turn raise is much scarier then a flop raise obv) and i can also just fold if a bad turn hits or he pots the turn or sumtin like that. so not to sure which is the best way to attack the hand.

i used to pretty much raise the flop every hand but have been makin it an effort to do this more often or late. i assume it is a good idea to have this play in my arsenal but not too sure wut kind of a frequency i should b doin this with. (note that i play hyper aggro and pretty loose as my normal game)

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I really don't like this line. You are playing 3-handed, and you are an aggro player. Villian you have described as good. Lets assume he know's your aggro, even more so than 3-handed.

Your range is HUGE. If you are going to raise pf (it's deffinately not standard) then raise the flop regardless of board. This looks more inline than a turn raise, because you are an aggressive player.

If he's steaming he may look you up light. I call the turn (good pot odds/implied odds/position) and play accordingly.

When you say you are calling the flop instead of raising because you acknowledge that a turn raise is scarier, you then say you can fold if he psb or a bad turn card hits. In this hand you'r line represents the nuts - if you are going to play it like that then you need to play it like that.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
in this instance what do u all think is the best way to gain EV in the hand? fire the flop with a psr or call and then make a raise on the turn when it is favorable.

if i wait till the turn it will cost me a lot more to do it but i think it works more often (because a turn raise is much scarier then a flop raise obv) and i can also just fold if a bad turn hits or he pots the turn or sumtin like that. so not to sure which is the best way to attack the hand.

i used to pretty much raise the flop every hand but have been makin it an effort to do this more often or late. i assume it is a good idea to have this play in my arsenal but not too sure wut kind of a frequency i should b doin this with. (note that i play hyper aggro and pretty loose as my normal game)

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't like this line. You are playing 3-handed, and you are an aggro player. Villian you have described as good. Lets assume he know's your aggro, even more so than 3-handed.

Your range is HUGE. If you are going to raise pf (it's deffinately not standard) then raise the flop regardless of board. This looks more inline than a turn raise, because you are an aggressive player.

If he's steaming he may look you up light. I call the turn (good pot odds/implied odds/position) and play accordingly.

When you say you are calling the flop instead of raising because you acknowledge that a turn raise is scarier, you then say you can fold if he psb or a bad turn card hits. In this hand you'r line represents the nuts - if you are going to play it like that then you need to play it like that.

[/ QUOTE ]i understand that i am representing the nuts or near nutz. my point in saying if he fires a psb on the turn or a bad card hits on the turn i am planning on givning up on the hand. yea i kno it doesnt matter if i represent the nutz wut card hits cuz i "still have the nutz" but after the flop i could have almost n e hand. not untill the turn raise have i defined my hand as the nuts. so if he fires the turn hard i will take this as he has a solid hand and will b rather unlikely to fold given my image and the way the last 10 or so hands have played out.

but now that he has shown weakness again i now pounce on him. and go for the knock punch. if he calls oww well. i have 8 outs. so idc. 8 outs to such a hidden hand and the amount of FE i think i have on the turn justifies this play really well imo.

the question i have is... is this more profitable then just making a standard psr on the flop.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

just raise the flop

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

[ QUOTE ]
the question i have is... is this more profitable then just making a standard psr on the flop.

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I don't think it' possible to judge which one is more profitable it depends on what villain is thinking.

I would call your psr on the flop with AK and I can see myself folding AK on the turn if I'd play many tables and would not notice how aggro you played previously. The question is: does villain have a strong read on you and will he act on it?

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

Usually raise pot on the flop to find out what weak DB means if you'll play with villain for longer.

Otherwise just play air like you would play AK or a set here. You hold 88 or AK untill you hit the straight if you want to bluff.

Check behind turn for "free" card if he checks turn because if he calls your flop raise he's not going away (there are no draws out there on the flop). That check would also make sense if you hold AK so you can still rep that hand on the river. Repping a set on the river after that check is of course less likely to be belived.

If he donks turn, do the math to see if you think you have implied odd (how much does he have to call on the river to justify your turn call), probably fold.

Where's villains estimated 3bet calling range? 44/88/99/K?/98 what do you put him on?

How would you play AK in this spot?

If you think he's steaming don't do anything too crazy.

p.s. From a thinking but not too good opponent I'd put him on a strong hand. Small bet to get raised by AK on the flop, bigger bet because he's scared of the flush on the turn. Maybe he picked up the FD himself and wants to draw reasonably cheap because the turn bet is not all that big.

Re: 76s DEEP... i three bet pre which leads me to a turn bluff
 

Raise flop his weak donk is litterally weak