Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

I run 3-4 miles about twice a week at just over a 9 min/mile pace.

I just ran one mile in about 7:30.

If I focus on running one mile for the next month, how much faster should I expect to be able to go?

Any suggestions on how best to train?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Three weeks of doing interval workouts with 200s, 400s, and 800s 2 or 3 times a week. On the off days jog or do nothing at all.

The workouts could be 6-8X200, 4-6X400, or 2-4X800. Rest between intervals by jogging the length of the interval you just ran.

Use the last week to rest before your max effort. Stick to easy runs and light strides that week 3 or 4 times. Take off the other days.

As far as doing your final time trial try to find someone to run with who is faster than you.

You could probably get to 6:45-7:00 in a month. A rabbitt during your final time trial will really help too.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

You're old.

I like the just under 7 guess if you really dedicate yourself.

I'd probably work on improving your base. When running so few miles each week from what I've read/experienced there is much more to gain by just running more each week than adding sprint workouts.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

El D,

do i smell a prop bet here?

static shock has good advice.

i have been trying to break 20 min for a 5k all summer, no luck, maybe we can work that into the bet as well.

btw i think you can get to 6:50 if you tried.
maybe i will go run a mile this week for best time and we can work something out.

gl. J.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

You can get under 7 easy.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Increase your endurance. From 3-4mi 2x/wk, you want to be doing 4-5 runs per week. 3-4mi on 3 of them at your normal base pace, try to finish each with a good 2-3 min faster pace, do one as a long, slower run, extending the time/dist (say ~6mi), and your final run should be ~3mi at an up tempo pace (anything really would work given your level now -- fartlek, 1 mi ez w/ 1mi fast then 1mi ez, sustained up tempo, whatever, just make it faster than usual). Do this 4 weeks and you'll run 6:45 no problem. Interval speedwork would be a waste of time.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

El D,

How hard was the 7:30 run? If you feel like you still had a faster run in you, then I'd say 6:30 is definitely doable. If 7:30 was as hard as you could go, then the 6:50-7:00 range is probably about as far as you could get.

FWIW, I don't have a ton of experience with running training outside of HS X-Country and casual gym running.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Any suggestions on how best to train?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Eat a pound of butter.

2. Add a faster run and a slow run.

3. You ought to be able to break 7:00 on guts/heart. The mind/body wants you to stop so it tries to trick you into thinking you are giving a big effort when you aren't scratching the surface-- it might help to know this.

4. Cheers

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I run 3-4 miles about twice a week at just over a 9 min/mile pace.


[/ QUOTE ]
Are you taking breaks inbetween the miles?

6:30 is pretty standard for people who are in decent shape.

in a month i think you can get down to 7 mins for sure by focusing on your one mile time.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
You're old.

I like the just under 7 guess if you really dedicate yourself.

I'd probably work on improving your base. When running so few miles each week from what I've read/experienced there is much more to gain by just running more each week than adding sprint workouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually a lot of recent data shows that you gain far more by adding sprint/interval training to your routine. Google tabata protocol for an example.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You're old.

I like the just under 7 guess if you really dedicate yourself.

I'd probably work on improving your base. When running so few miles each week from what I've read/experienced there is much more to gain by just running more each week than adding sprint workouts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually a lot of recent data shows that you gain far more by adding sprint/interval training to your routine. Google tabata protocol for an example.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even when you have virtually no base?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

I'm not sure what you mean by "base" although I get the point. But he clearly has the endurance to run a mile. And it looks like he specifically wants to improve his speed on the run. If so, the quickest means to improve his time is sprints and intervals. His aerobic endurance will improve and he will make gains in his speed as well.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what you mean by "base" although I get the point. But he clearly has the endurance to run a mile. And it looks like he specifically wants to improve his speed on the run. If so, the quickest means to improve his time is sprints and intervals. His aerobic endurance will improve and he will make gains in his speed as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

His max speed in unimportant in this. His aerobic endurance is the thing holding him back.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

AFAIK studies show that both aerobic and anaerobic endurance increase more through interval training than distance training

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
AFAIK studies show that both aerobic and anaerobic endurance increase more through interval training than distance training

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Links plz?

I was basing my recs based off std track style training. Long runs + short runs = best time at in between run

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Links plz?

I was basing my recs based off std track style training. Long runs + short runs = best time at in between run

[/ QUOTE ]

Mostly just going off of hearsay, have only read this article which cites one study: http://www.cs.unm.edu/~wneumann/file...lla_cardio.pdf

Can be found in the "putting guerilla cardio to the test" section from page 5 to page 6.

Basically says that over a 6 week period, one group did 1 hour of moderate intensity cardio at 70% of VO2 peak 5 days a week, while the second group did 8 20 second intervals with 10 seconds of rest in between at 170 percent of VO2 peak. At the end of 6 weeks, the moderate intensity group showed a 10% increase in VO2 peak while the interval group showed a 14% increase in VO2 peak.

Obv this doesn't tell the whole story so I'm still not sure what the best way to proceed would be for el D

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Bedroom Reading:

www.gordonpirie.com
Scroll down to "Running Fast and Injury Free"
Click on the updated version,
Click on "Download as PDF"
<Firefox> allow popups, then click "Download as PDF" again.

As for your initial question, I'm really not sure as it's not my forté, but I imagine that by training specifically for a mile run sub-7:00 is very possible.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Diablo,

One thing that has always worked to make me faster is racing a girl who is, on paper, just a little bit faster than me. It helps if this race happens in front of all your friends who will mock you relentlessly if you lose.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AFAIK studies show that both aerobic and anaerobic endurance increase more through interval training than distance training

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Links plz?

I was basing my recs based off std track style training. Long runs + short runs = best time at in between run

[/ QUOTE ]

did you ever google tabata protocol?

Intervals are slowly taking over as the preferred method of improving both endurance and speed. And I could even go to the advantages this type of training has as far as weight loss / fat burn go, but its not relevant here.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AFAIK studies show that both aerobic and anaerobic endurance increase more through interval training than distance training

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Links plz?

I was basing my recs based off std track style training. Long runs + short runs = best time at in between run

[/ QUOTE ]

did you ever google tabata protocol?

Intervals are slowly taking over as the preferred method of improving both endurance and speed. And I could even go to the advantages this type of training has as far as weight loss / fat burn go, but its not relevant here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you dense or just like to pretend you're erudite?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

If you want to race fast, you need to train fast. Almost all of your workouts should be faster than race pace. Going out and running slow will not make you a better mile runner. Those types of runs have their place in the offseason, but once in season it's time to hit the track for intervals.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Those types of runs have their place in the offseason, but once in season it's time to hit the track for intervals.

[/ QUOTE ]

What about for recovery? I'm all for increasing intensity, but how many times a week, and why wouldn't you spend some of the rest of your time gaining volume at low intensity?

Maybe the way to do this is to propose a training plan for peak performance in 28 days rather than talking in generalities?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Absolutely for recovery days go run some slow miles. I'm not advocating working out seven days a week. I'm saying make your 2-3 workout days a week interval based. The other days go for easy runs or swim or bike or do nothing.

Edit: I'm talking about basically in season training for distances 1600m and under. That's why I didn't say anything about tempo runs.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AFAIK studies show that both aerobic and anaerobic endurance increase more through interval training than distance training

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting. Links plz?

I was basing my recs based off std track style training. Long runs + short runs = best time at in between run

[/ QUOTE ]

did you ever google tabata protocol?

Intervals are slowly taking over as the preferred method of improving both endurance and speed. And I could even go to the advantages this type of training has as far as weight loss / fat burn go, but its not relevant here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you dense or just like to pretend you're erudite?

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you have to be such a flaming [censored]? If you think Im wrong about something or I'm not doing a good job of conveying what I'm trying to say, please let me know. The insults really arent necessary.

At any rate, staticshock pretty much said what I was going to say in response to your childish post.

Here is a link to a Men's Fitness article which does a decent job of summarizing the Tabata protocol

The Secret of Tabata

And a quick excerpt from said article:

[ QUOTE ]
In Tabata's study, the researchers found that guys who used the routine five days a week for six weeks improved their maximum aerobic capacity (a measure of your body's ability to consume oxygen--the more oxygen you can take in, the longer and harder you'll be able to run) by 14%. What's more, it also improved anaerobic capacity (which measures your speed endurance, or the duration you're able to sprint at full effort) by 28%. So the Tabata Protocol is the rare workout that benefits both endurance athletes and sprinters--hard to accomplish. Consider: A study of traditional aerobic training--running at 70% of aerobic capacity for 60 minutes--for the same number of weeks showed an improvement in aerobic capacity of 9.5% and no effect on anaerobic capacity.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is other information out there obviously, this was the first return on the google search.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

So you are saying something like the following: (?)

week #1: 6x200 off 3x400 off 2x800 "active rest" off
week #2: 8x200 off 4x400 off 3x800 "active rest" off
week #3: 8x200 off 5x400 off 3x800 "active rest" off
week #4: 4x400 off 6x200strides off off off race

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. But intervals 3x a week strikes me as pretty intense for a recreational type.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

vulturesrow,

I know whatev quasi-ghey rags you read might pass as "research" in whatever donkotard circles you travel. But I'd like an actual study done instead of whatever drivel you dig up. k thx.

For now you can let the men talk, go tabata outside with Mens Health and Flex or where ever you wanna find your research.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Heres an idea: Go [censored] yourself.

EDIT:


Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max.

And you can still go [censored] yourself.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Heres an idea: Go [censored] yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wha Wha Wha.

Let me sum up this situation: I'm Clarkmeister... I post in a forum I never come too since I stalk El Diablo. I take shots at a regular for not reading basic articles about a well known protocol when he asks an entirely different poster for research about the topic. I try to present my advice as very erudite and correct when in fact I've only read a couple basic magazine articles and done some cursory googletarding before. When it is presented to me that 1) I was not being addressed 2) I still don't know WTF I'm talking about but merely parroting some crap article about a protocol that everyone knows about I resort to insults instead of relinquishing my faux expert status.

Go ahead. Insult me again. Edit my post. Tell me to check google. Complain to the other mods. Cry more. Go to another forum you've never posted in before, following El Diablo around and try to show you have a [censored] clue what you're talking about. Wipe the sand from your V. Or just stop being a douche?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Clark,

Way to copy an article already referenced in the thread. Anything else you want to do to embarrass yourself?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heres an idea: Go [censored] yourself.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wha Wha Wha.

Let me sum up this situation: I'm Clarkmeister... I post in a forum I never come too since I stalk El Diablo. I take shots at a regular for not reading basic articles about a well known protocol when he asks an entirely different poster for research about the topic. I try to present my advice as very erudite and correct when in fact I've only read a couple basic magazine articles and done some cursory googletarding before. When it is presented to me that 1) I was not being addressed 2) I still don't know WTF I'm talking about but merely parroting some crap article about a protocol that everyone knows about I resort to insults instead of relinquishing my faux expert status.

Go ahead. Insult me again. Edit my post. Tell me to check google. Complain to the other mods. Cry more. Go to another forum you've never posted in before, following El Diablo around and try to show you have a [censored] clue what you're talking about. Wipe the sand from your V. Or just stop being a douche?

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets be clear: You're the one who started off being a dick. And its not like this is a one time thing for you in this forum. Funny how one of your lame insults is about "Let the men talk" when it is pretty clear to anyone with half a brain who the child is in here. Enjoy having the last word, I wont be responding to you again in this thread.

Apologies to everyone who suffered through our drivel.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not trying to put words in your mouth. But intervals 3x a week strikes me as pretty intense for a recreational type.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. Plenty of factors come into play that may knock it down to zero times a week. I speak from a background of high school and college training so what I say will fall towards a more intense work load. Recreational types need to adopt to keep from hurting themselves or burning out.

Going back to my suggestion for El D, I think he could sustain that workload for a month doing 2-3 real interval workouts a week given his soccer background.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

All,

Looks like there are pretty divided "run more distance for a month" vs "interval train for a month" camps. I'll probably do some combo of both.

In case it matters to anyone's suggestion, I also play tennis for 2-2.5hrs (4 or 5 sets) about twice a week.

I also sometimes run a little faster or a little longer - I can run 5-6 miles pretty easily now, 10 miles would probably be tough.

I haven't played serious soccer in about 5 years, so that's the last time I did any sprint training.

Last time I did a timed mile race was 2003, and I did something like 6:25 then. Sounds like it'll be pretty tough and very unlikely to match that this year.

J: "do i smell a prop bet here?" - Not on this mile, but I might consider "improve mile time in a year" bets.

N: "How hard was the 7:30 run?" - Hard, but not super hard. I ran two 9-minute miles right after. I could definitely have done 7:15, maybe a little faster.

s: "The mind/body wants you to stop" - Definitely, largely because I HATE RUNNING WITH A PASSION.

x: "Are you taking breaks inbetween the miles?" - No.

B: "racing a girl who is, on paper, just a little bit faster" - I used this technique all through college.

Thremp, vulture, shemp, SS, and others: Thanks!

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Thremp,

"Let me sum up this situation: I'm Clarkmeister..."

Did I miss something here?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
s: "The mind/body wants you to stop" - Definitely, largely because I HATE RUNNING WITH A PASSION.

[/ QUOTE ]

why do you run then?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

Thremp is it your intent to ruin every thread in this forum by all this childish bs.

Please leave the name calling and egotistical posturing out of each and every decent thread.

grow the [censored] up

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

el d.,

I think opinion is split because the mile (and 800) are such peculiar distances. On the one hand it is endurance on the other hand it is less than 7:00 minutes. And you are relatively comfortable at 9 min/mile-- but you need to sustain a much higher effort.

I agree with Static Shock that the most important thing is that you put your body through (and beyond) the pace you will race at-- and I have no idea how much high intensity work is appropriate for you. Given that you are only going to be doing it for 3 weeks-- I can see him being correct about doing a lot. I think it is a bit risky -- and this is definitely a short term thing-- you can't keep training like that even in the unlikely event you liked the results.

I also like the "lsd" runs more for recovery than building an aerobic base-- I think the race is too close to make much progress on that score.

My approach would be just to give yourself a glimpse of your own potential. You can probably suck it up and run a 1:45 quarter even when you feel fatigued, just as you can do one around 1:30 when you are completely fresh. Now those two in the middle, they are gonna take some guts.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
s: "The mind/body wants you to stop" - Definitely, largely because I HATE RUNNING WITH A PASSION.

[/ QUOTE ]

why do you run then?

[/ QUOTE ]

I enjoy it once I've gotten through the bombardment of negative imagery that happens early in a run. It took me a long time to get to that point, prior to which I ran for exercise/fitness.

You might hold your breath for as long as you can while swimming underwater-- trying not to listen to your panicky brain. It might still be fun?

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

I went from 7:14 to 6:41 in 4 weeks last summer, running one mile per week [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

If you put in slightly more work than that you should get to at least 6:30.

Re: Mile run - how much time can I drop in a month?
 

AZK,

"why do you run then?"

To stay in shape and perform better at sports.