Flopped 4th set.
 

1st hand post outside NC. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Hero took a shot at 0.5/1. There are some aggro characters at the table, and some total spewmonkies (UTG+1) is in the hand...

Character list:
MP3 40/12.5/2.5/7 No reads and that is probably because he is an nit.
MP2 49/24.3/12.3/2.4 His numbers says about what I thought at the time
UTG+1 is here to drop mobnies, period.
Heros image: Weak tight (I got cold carded), but I had c/r twice from EP and raised early limpers from LP with holdings that never made it to showdown.

Poker Stars
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $0.50/$1
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Xylocain is BB with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, 3 folds, 3 folds, Xylocain checks.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 4 players)
Xylocain checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2.25BB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Xylocain bets</font>, UTG+1 folds, MP2 calls, <font color="#cc0000">MP3 raises</font>, Xylocain...

I am especially interested in flop play c/r vs bet. If you use "not close" in your reply please provide reasons.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Lead the flop as it gets the most money in.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

I would also have led the flop.

I am not sure how many hands you had on your opponents, but I assume that it was not that many.

Anyway, even though I suspect that you thought your opponents were agressive, I dont think you can rely upon their betting the flop if you check, as no one raised preflop.

(Corrected my post, meant to say flop not turn)

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Nr of hands is the first so about 50.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Let's try and keep the titles a little closer to the actual hands kthxbai.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Bet the flop and hope you get raised. You have a monster and don't know if anyone is going to bet it for you.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Um, I did flop 4th set? WTF?

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Um, I did flop 4th set? WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://icanhascheezburger.files.word...skepticism.jpg

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Um, I did flop 4th set? WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]
Flopped 4th set is unpossible. I'll give you 4th nuts though.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Being first to act, i like the check. As played, this way we make it easier for the field to call our turn bet. Unfortunately, we have to hate that raise so i call down if UI on river.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

A set is when you make 3 of a kind, with a pocket pair in your hand.

Trips, by the way is when you make 3 of a kind, with one card in your hand and a pair on the board.

In this hand, you had top 2 pair.

As far as the turn goes, I think that I would have called the turn raise.

There are more combinations for your opponent to hold KQ or 66 (19) than JT (6), which are the hands that I think he would be most likely to raise with.

You cant fold the turn, because 1. You might have the best hand. and 2. If you are behind, you still have 4 outs to a full house.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

F-

Why didn't you bet the flop? If you were thinking someone would bet your hand for you, wouldn't you like it bettter if they raised it for you?

You should always be betting coordinated flops. DON'T GIVE FREE CARDS TO MONSTER DRAWS!!

horrible.

post grunch, I got the fourth set bit. You need to work on your game, though, not your creative post titles.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

I know the flop play sucked pretty bad... when I checked I figured a flop with a an A and a FD would never be checked trough and a bet (given my image)would take it down right there if noone had an ace (given I had raped the deck pretty bad for high pairs)... I think I was FPSing because I took a shot.

... actually what bugged my about the hand was getting raised on this board by a nit when an off suit J hit. I hoped that directing attention to the flop would get me less biased answers, heh well that worked out swell.

So to get back on track, MP3 would never slowplay a set, an ace or a FD on the flop beeing last to act... given this what is EV between 3-town (taking my flop miss and MP1 into account) and calling.


whats with all the levelheadedness about 4th set... jeez people, did you think Tylers Vil actually had Anna Kournikova in his lap during that hand too?

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
You need to work on your game, though, not your creative post titles.[/i]

[/ QUOTE ]

tell me about it

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Being first to act, i like the check. As played, this way we make it easier for the field to call our turn bet. Unfortunately, we have to hate that raise so i call down if UI on river.

[/ QUOTE ]

How the heck do you make it easier - villains are getting 5:1 on the flop call and 3:1 on the turn call. They can't draw anymore correctly.

I am leading this flop, no questions. There was no preflop raise, you have no idea if anyone would bet it for you.

Even if your C/R succeeds, it gives away the strenght of you hand so much that you'll usually seet check-folds on the turn.

Bet and hope for calls and raises.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Lead the flop as it gets money in.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you don't know who's going to oblige you by betting, you probably shouldn't c/r.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

even I know that we should bet this flop.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

I'm raising this preflop. You may not be the favorite to win the hand, but I think you have equity against all the limpers.

On the flop, I'm opening. I have a GREAT hand and nobody's shown any strength so far. We can't guarantee a c/r with no aggressors, so just bet it out.

The turn c/r is scary. I call down from here.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]

Even if your C/R succeeds, it gives away the strenght of you hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno, I dont see a c/r a LP from EP as very strong. It looks more like protection to me.

[ QUOTE ]
If you don't know who's going to oblige you by betting, you probably shouldn't c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

[ QUOTE ]
I'm raising this preflop. You may not be the favorite to win the hand, but I think you have equity against all the limpers.

[/ QUOTE ]

I prefer just checking these hands (even AQo) in the blinds unless there are so many limpers that I must push my equity edge. I have perfect relative position but I will be playing OOP for the rest of the hand. (edited to say, turn isn't a c/r)

Now what about the trurn.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

How can you not raise AQo from the blinds in hands like this? I can see ATo being checked but I raise ATs here and AJo... you've gotta be losing value here

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

As played, I'm doing any thing I can to get this turn capped.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

flop check is bad because of the line-up, really. it is not terrible, but you should bet with two tight limpers last to act.

turn is a call and it isn't very close.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

Yes, Fantam , was on it and I think Miles got the whole hand. EV between c/r and betting the flop isnt that different but betting is clearly preferable.

In the actual hand I 3-bet turn and I think that is a much worse mistake than the failed c/r.

Raising results in driving out MP1 which would provide the BB that raising would get me by MP3 calling the 3-bet.

What is MP3 calling range, I ruled out AA, KK, QQ, set, AX, Ax and FDs.. All of those would raised PF or bet flop.

That leaves pretty much KQ, JT and JJ. Of those only JT call the 3-bet the rest of his range is capping like there is no tomorrow. In short, regardless of flop action turn is a call and its not close at all. I have to fix that leak.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, Fadook, was on it

[/ QUOTE ]

I was "on it" without even posting? Damn, i got serious skills.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

I spread [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] lightly


FMP

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[ QUOTE ]
... actually what bugged my about the hand was getting raised on this board by a nit when an off suit J hit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, listen, this plays out totally different if you bet the flop. Who the hell knows what villain has now -- do you actulaly expect people to act normally when you don't play your hands straightforwardly?

So now this could be any J. He's actually quite aggro post flop... probably weak/tight actually and so has a decently strong J or better. Since we don't know what to do now call down.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

who knows what villain has now? are you serious? supertight player overlimps two others preflop and checks AT6 flop. turn J gets bet and called, and now he raises. he doesn't have QJ or KJ. he doesn't have Ax. he has JJ, JT or KQ pretty much all the time. obviously betting the flop changes the hand, but almost everyone just flat out ignored the turn action as if it were less important than the flop play. not 3-betting the turn is so much more important than betting the flop.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

I don't know, Miles. No one bet an a-high flop. Villain isn't super-tight with 12.5% VPIP. He's super aggro post flop. KJ gives him a really attractive hand.

Re: Flopped 4th set.
 

My thinking is, you don't get that much tighter than 12.5. And vil isn't superaggro at all. He raised once and fit-or-folded 4 times in 40 hands.