Ethics question
 

cliff notes: have to spend 100 bucks on a piece of paper to pass a course, while a good portion of the class does not. Considering stealing said paper. College text book prices bitching/complaining thread.

background:

If you are currently a college student, or have been in the last 20 years or so, you are probably aware of the bs that occurs with new editions of text books. I am in my last year of college and have learned to accept it, until now.

Publishers will make new editions of text books with little to no changes to the material sometimes. The changes are purely cosmetic (cover art, layout etc...) I am not really sure how the business end of it works specifically, but it is my understanding that this is done to balance out the fact that university book stores will buy books back from students, and resell them used, thus cutting into the sales of the publisher.

Now here is my ethics dilema...

I am a Restaurant and Hotel Management major. There is a course this semester that has a lot of people in my major in it, but also some business majors taking it as an elective.

The first day of class, the professor basically states that she will not be using the text book, and you dont have to purchase it, the test material will come 100% from lecture. HOWEVER...if you are a major in this field, there is a certification test at the end of the semester that requires a special red scantron found in the back of the new textbook.

So basically i need to drop $100 + tax for a single sheet of paper, while non majors will get the same educational experience from the class that i will by not buying the text book.

I have never stolen anything before in my life, but i am tempted to go into a book store and just cut a hole in the plastic wrapping of one of these books and grab the scantron. Who will lose money from this? the bookstore will just sell the book used for 75 bucks or so, so a loss of 25.

I have always just dealt with the insanity of book prices before, and accepted it as part of my education expenses, but this for some reason has upset me. I read an article that mentioned that since 1994, student book prices have been increasing at a rate of 4x that of inflation.

So my morals are dropping for this instance, but chances are im too much of a pansy to actually steal this thing. What do you guys think?

Re: Ethics question
 

Yeah, college textbook costs are an insane scam.

That said, you're getting a certification and the business majors are not. Pay the $100 and deal with it.

Re: Ethics question
 

burn the bookstore down, obv.

Re: Ethics question
 

why not just get the sheet from someone in your class who is non major? That being said, if that is not an option I would go ahead and steal it.

Re: Ethics question
 

Buy the Scantron from a non-bellhop major for $10?

Re: Ethics question
 

Or go to a copy machine. If not then I like whorasaurus's answer the best.

Re: Ethics question
 

Maybe research how many corporations are keen on hiring people with an adult record of shoplifting. Ask yourself if it's worth $100 not to take that chance.

At least first try to find someone who purchased the book and doesn't need the scantron. I bet they will take $25 for it.

Re: Ethics question
 

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why not just get the sheet from someone in your class who is non major? That being said, if that is not an option I would go ahead and steal it.

[/ QUOTE ]

non majors wont be buying the book, as the proffesor told us that the book for the course will not be used at all, so there is no reason to buy it. unless you need this sheet of paper...

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe research how many corporations are keen on hiring people with an adult record of shoplifting. Ask yourself if it's worth $100 not to take that chance.

At least first try to find someone who purchased the book and doesn't need the scantron. I bet they will take $25 for it.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea thats the main reason i probably wont end up doing it. im probably 95% sure i could pull it off no problem, but it just not worth the risk. they have a few cameras from what i saw, but mainly its just those big circle mirrors that allow you to see around corners.

the book in question is on the bottom shelf, figured if i actually wanted to do it, i could just pull out a few pieces of paper like i was looking at a sylabus for class, put them next to the book and just put the scantron in that. but again, the chance of someone walking past me the second i was doing that and getting nailed just wouldnt be worth it.

Re: Ethics question
 

look on one of those used book websites or craigslist or something and offer somoene money for the sheet. you can do this without spending $100 OR shoplifitn

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why not just get the sheet from someone in your class who is non major? That being said, if that is not an option I would go ahead and steal it.

[/ QUOTE ]

non majors wont be buying the book, as the proffesor told us that the book for the course will not be used at all, so there is no reason to buy it. unless you need this sheet of paper...

[/ QUOTE ]

There are geeks in every class that buy the book. Find one.

Re: Ethics question
 

Don't shoplift. Make sure to bitch to whatever instances you can about having to spend $100 for a piece of paper.

Re: Ethics question
 

I love this common rationalization for stealing. "I am in college and things cost too much..."

If you need the scantron then buy it. Or steal it if you prefer but it is obviously wrong, and tantamount to stealing anything worth 100 dollars really. So you might as well steal a calculator while you are there.

Re: Ethics question
 

Hey, could you steal me something while you're there? Anything not Harry Potter. Thanks.

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I love this common rationalization for stealing. "I am in college and things cost too much..."

If you need the scantron then buy it. Or steal it if you prefer but it is obviously wrong, and tantamount to stealing anything worth 100 dollars really. So you might as well steal a calculator while you are there.

[/ QUOTE ]

right haha.. presumably you're paying at least $XXXXX for a "piece of paper" anyway (your degree).

Re: Ethics question
 

1. Buy the book, new.

2. Take what you need.

3. Sell book back to bookstore, used.

I don't know how much this will cost you, but by definition, it has to be <$100.

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
1. Buy the book, new.

2. Take what you need.

3. Sell book back to bookstore, used.

I don't know how much this will cost you, but by definition, it has to be <$100.

[/ QUOTE ]

"sorry we arent buying this book back, they are comming out with a 'new' edition next year so its worthless"

hopefully they will buy it back though, wont know till the end of the semester.

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I love this common rationalization for stealing. "I am in college and things cost too much..."

If you need the scantron then buy it. Or steal it if you prefer but it is obviously wrong, and tantamount to stealing anything worth 100 dollars really. So you might as well steal a calculator while you are there.

[/ QUOTE ]

its nothing to do with "im in college and things cost to much" so i justify stealing...i actually never made that point. think i actually made a point to say that ive accepted the expenses that come with college, but this case is just a little more retarded than the rest.

its more of the fact that its a scam and i feel like im getting more screwed over than usual on prices. i would feel the same way if i was out in the real world.

but yea, im not going to steal it, just venting and seeing what others think.

Re: Ethics question
 

YOU are not being screwed over. The expectation is that those taking the class will be buying the textbook, which is why you receive a special certification for that text.

The professor is giving the "non-certification seeking" students a BREAK by telling them that they won't need the book to perform well on her tests.

I think if you look at it from the correct perspective, you'll feel better about the purchase.

Re: Ethics question
 

I'd be sure to find a spot to ask the prof how much he's being kicked back for his part in this travesty. Special red Scantron my ass. The [censored]'s so special about it.

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
YOU are not being screwed over. The expectation is that those taking the class will be buying the textbook, which is why you receive a special certification for that text.

The professor is giving the "non-certification seeking" students a BREAK by telling them that they won't need the book to perform well on her tests.

I think if you look at it from the correct perspective, you'll feel better about the purchase.

[/ QUOTE ]

i see what you are saying...but i still cant help but feel that its the students that are being exploited. the book will not be used at all, why cant we just buy the scantron seperate?

ill admit that there are valid arguements for this not being so bad because i get a special certification that will look good on a resume, but my anger is more directed at the book system in general, and this instance just makes it stand out more.

The publishers and the book stores are in a constant stuggle back and forth. Book stores gain profit by selling a book for 100 bucks, buying it back for like 30, then reselling next year used for 75. So in theory they are making money each year without having to purchase any new inventory.

The publisher says that sucks, because they arent selling as many books, so they release new editions that arent really new at all.

Who gets screwed? the students. hard to argue the fact that i mentioned in my op, student book prices rising at a rate of 4x inflation since 1994.

translation: whine whine bitch bitch life isnt fair etc

Re: Ethics question
 

Cliff Notes:

Ethics Question: Is stealing unethical?

Answer: Yes.

End of Discussion.

Re: Ethics question
 

you need to clarify some things. are you telling me your teacher is saying that majors have to take this test thing to pass the class?

also college textbooks are a lot different than they were in 94 so I'm not sure it's a fair comparison... blame the lazy teachers

Re: Ethics question
 

A hospitality degree from 'Bama? Really?

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
I'd be sure to find a spot to ask the prof how much he's being kicked back for his part in this travesty. Special red Scantron my ass. The [censored]'s so special about it.

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A free textbook. That's all a professor gets from publishers.

Re: Ethics question
 

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A hospitality degree from 'Bama? Really?

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Get your nose in the air a little higher, Vandy.

Re: Ethics question
 

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A hospitality degree from 'Bama? Really?

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yea, was a marketing major till i decided that sucked and i wanted to get into the Casino/Resort industry. whats your point?

Re: Ethics question
 

Sounds like the certification costs $100 and comes with a worthless free textbook. What's so unusual about a certification test costing money? Someone has to write the test and administer it. If the textbook actually has value on its own, sell it on ebay.

People pay $100 or more for pieces of paper all the time. Ask anyone who's been to an NFL or NHL game lately. The value is in what the paper represents or allows you to do, not the physical paper itself.

Stealing is wrong, and lawyers/court costs/lost future earnings make it -EV.

Re: Ethics question
 

Campus bookstores at the schools I've attended allow you to return hardcover books for the first 2 weeks as long as you don't screw the book up. Buy the book, carefully remove whatever page you need with an exacto knife so that it looks like it was never there. Return immediately for full refund. If this is too complicated, watch The Sting with Robert Redford. Great movie and I'm sure it will inspire something useful.

Re: Ethics question
 

[ QUOTE ]
Campus bookstores at the schools I've attended allow you to return hardcover books for the first 2 weeks as long as you don't screw the book up. Buy the book, carefully remove whatever page you need with an exacto knife so that it looks like it was never there. Return immediately for full refund. If this is too complicated, watch The Sting with Robert Redford. Great movie and I'm sure it will inspire something useful.

[/ QUOTE ]

first thing i thought off...unfortunatly there is a big notice on the outside cover of the book, where the bar code is that reads "book nonreturnable without scantron"