5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

I assume since he plays 26 hourse a day everyone at this forum has played with him... preflop i called because both blinds were loose/passive and weak.

hmm my image is probably mediocre tag, wasnt playin with hud but probably 24/21 ish

in all my 2k+ hands with leather ive probably 3bet him slightly more often than most, specially in position, but i dont remember any huge bluffs/calls/ very out of line history.


#11773834238: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2007/08/30 - 11:49:27 (ET)
Table 'Menippe II' 6-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Leatherass9 ($1812 in chips)
Seat 2: Sauce123 ($975 in chips)
Seat 3: nutty_bar ($609 in chips)
Seat 4: Morag ($691.95 in chips)
nutty_bar: posts small blind $5
Morag: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [7d 7h]
Leatherass9: raises $20 to $30
Sauce123: calls $30
nutty_bar: folds
Morag: calls $20
*** FLOP *** [2s 9c 6c]
Morag: checks
Leatherass9: bets $70
Sauce123: calls $70
Morag: folds
*** TURN *** [2s 9c 6c] [4c]
Leatherass9: checks
Sauce123: checks
*** RIVER *** [2s 9c 6c 4c] [4s]
Leatherass9: bets $175
Sauce123: raises $700 to $875 and is all-in

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

why not bet the turn?

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

dislike a lot a lot a lot

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

bet the turn

this might work and it might not, your line certainly looks bluffy

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

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dislike a lot a lot a lot

[/ QUOTE ]

actually, against him might be okay

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

with given info i don't like this. he has posted in the past week or so that he can make big laydowns but you sound like the kind of guy who he's not going to give credit for a big hand here, and the kind of guy who might get a little fps/spewy and turn a hand with showdown value into a bluff. this is key because your range has a ton of such hands, plus 89 which missed.

his range on the river is probably overpair/flush/bluff/maybe good 9, all of which are probably going to call.

also as far as handreading goes from his perspective a flush would bet the turn some % of the time, a set is realllly unlikely given flop/turn (and pf to some extent - you might 3bet 66/99 a lot of the time as you indicated in your post)

yeah i just dont like this bluff at all.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

hmm.. ok let me just say that leather is probably the only 5/10 player id consider trying this on... maybe elky also i donno...

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

i thought elky was spewtard! correct me if i'm wrong...

plus he just posted that big laydown like last week, i imagine people are trying to run him over all over the place... let it die down a bit before u try to push him off an overpair or w/e

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

ok, its DEFINITELY not great. theres certain grinders who just hate to call off stacks on the river with mediocre made hands. leather is definitely solid but i htought this mind set might come into play a little...

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

this is so much better if the turn is a 2, but i 'm sure you know that

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

i dont know him but i think its ok. id probably fold any overpair here...is that bad?

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

I probably shouldn't be saying this but you never ever mix it up in regards to a tradition slow play, and you bet almost your entire floating range on the turn too, the only thing you have on this river is a weak complete hand, but still, who knows if he will nut up and call or not.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

that sauce123 has balls of steel

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
that sauce123 has balls of steel

[/ QUOTE ]

i might Xpost this to NVG but i heard bobbofitos plays under terrorofsweden on FT

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you play a flush / set like that because that's the obvious play.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

krantz if a reasonable 2p2 tag (no real reads or history) did this you instacall with say TT?

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

krantz if a reasonable 2p2 tag (no real reads or history) did this you instacall with say TT?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd call with so many hands there that he might be doing this for value against me with his 77. Only half joking.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

maybe thats a leak in my game then hm.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

or a leak in mine

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
or a leak in mine

[/ QUOTE ]

I would say so. I really don't see people bluff like this hardly ever and I think Sauce is repping a set pretty well. I don't think that he ever plays a flush like this though, but I could be wrong.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
or a leak in mine

[/ QUOTE ]

well krantz seems to agree and you and i have similar games so i dont think both of us can be right.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

meh I dont thin ksauce ever ever has a set here, this is the 54 gutter or 43 gutter if hes valuebetting (which is hardly ever)

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

if river is a 6 i love it. Leatherass probably just thinks "wtf could i possibly put him on" and calls.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

meh iono if i liek this, it might work since hes kind of a multitabling nit, but all the hands that your representing would have bet the turn

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

not a fan, i agree w/ krantz.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you play a flush / set like that because that's the obvious play.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not following?

jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you play a flush / set like that because that's the obvious play.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not following?

jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

Agree with KRANTZ

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
Agree with KRANTZ

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
I probably shouldn't be saying this but you never ever mix it up in regards to a tradition slow play, and you bet almost your entire floating range on the turn too, the only thing you have on this river is a weak complete hand, but still, who knows if he will nut up and call or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you play a flush / set like that because that's the obvious play.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not following?

jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

[/ QUOTE ]

You said we raise with a set or flush here because we're never given credit, that could very well be true but we're raising because it makes no sense not to more than anything else.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you play a flush / set like that because that's the obvious play.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not following?

jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

[/ QUOTE ]

You said we raise with a set or flush here because we're never given credit, that could very well be true but we're raising because it makes no sense not to more than anything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

so how did we get to the river then? did i have JT and was floating and magically pokerstars changed my cards to bottom set while i was looking at another table?

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

you only do this to LA and Elky? Do you play poker with your eyes closed or do you just never pay attention?

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you play a flush or set like this because you will never be given credit

[/ QUOTE ]

Well you play a flush / set like that because that's the obvious play.

[/ QUOTE ]

im not following?

jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

[/ QUOTE ]

You said we raise with a set or flush here because we're never given credit, that could very well be true but we're raising because it makes no sense not to more than anything else.

[/ QUOTE ]

so how did we get to the river then? did i have JT and was floating and magically pokerstars changed my cards to bottom set while i was looking at another table?

[/ QUOTE ]

I get what you and Krantz are saying now and you're right. I misunderstood what you guys were getting at and I think I misread the hand history as well.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

[ QUOTE ]
jfish i wouldn't instacall, but i would definitely call. if he shows me something tricky then i adjust from there, but fact of the matter is, no one at these stakes is really that creative and will never have a flush or boat here given action

[/ QUOTE ]

meh i usually wait for them to show me a bluff before i start calling. ive been running bad on hero calls and its been making be a pussy.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

i think whether or not a good player will decide to call a river shove is irrelevant to whether the river is a +EV bluff vs leatherass

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

i know, i found what krantz said pretty counter-intuitive to me and i just wanted some clarification for why he felt the way he did. sry for going OT.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

Considering how people expected him to fold pretty much anything but the nuts in the other thread, I wouldn't think he is the one to make a herocall here, even though the situations are obviously not the same at all.

Re: 5/10- River Bluff vs LeatherAss
 

but people who expected him to fold everything but the nuts in the other hand are crazy