River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

Reads.

Button is 29/19 LAG/TAG (5-6 handed) over 500 datamined hands. No real reads. Cant remember playing him before.

BB is an idiot. 67/10 stats but quite erratic postflop. I havent seen him c/r with air but he will bet when checked too and a few hands before this one he donkbluffed the river in a pretty huge pot vs me HU.

(I think I know what the best play is. Just wanted to hear you guys' opinion)

Oh, and IMO I misplayed the flop. Prolly because I have been running bad lately. Feel free to comment on flop play, but I am mostly interested in the river.


Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, CO folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (9.4SB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.2BB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets</font>, BB calls, Hero calls.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (9.2BB, 3 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero...

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

I havent thought about what bb has much, but raise looks sweet.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

This is a difficult spot, considering btn i think u can fold this hand. I dont think BB is bluffing here or betting a 4 in a 3way Pot in wich he c/c twice. Btn folds nuffin that beats u against a raise on that River so this is either a call or a fold but never a raise i think.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

c/r flop for value and to prevent villain taking a free turn card with AQ AK KQ.

button should never be folding a better hand to a raise, hero's hand is never a J here. if I am button I snapcall AT

call because the pot is big and button can have 66-99 or maybe AK.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

don't try and fold out QQ+ here. Just call.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is a difficult spot, considering btn i think u can fold this hand. I dont think BB is bluffing here or betting a 4 in a 3way Pot in wich he c/c twice. Btn folds nuffin that beats u against a raise on that River so this is either a call or a fold but never a raise i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise this river are you calling AA?

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

I could see a LAGTAG getting away from an overpair facing 2 cold on the river, but I wouldn't count on it.

btw, what would you have done differently on the flop? I think I play it the same so far. And I call the river, folding if BTN raises.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a difficult spot, considering btn i think u can fold this hand. I dont think BB is bluffing here or betting a 4 in a 3way Pot in wich he c/c twice. Btn folds nuffin that beats u against a raise on that River so this is either a call or a fold but never a raise i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise this river are you calling AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

instacall, your hand is face up

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a difficult spot, considering btn i think u can fold this hand. I dont think BB is bluffing here or betting a 4 in a 3way Pot in wich he c/c twice. Btn folds nuffin that beats u against a raise on that River so this is either a call or a fold but never a raise i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise this river are you calling AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

instacall, your hand is face up

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok ty.

I prolly gave LAG/TAG to little credit then. I thought I made an expert raise but judging from the responses so far I got lucky.

BTW Trypta. I would usually c/r the flop.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is a difficult spot, considering btn i think u can fold this hand. I dont think BB is bluffing here or betting a 4 in a 3way Pot in wich he c/c twice. Btn folds nuffin that beats u against a raise on that River so this is either a call or a fold but never a raise i think.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I raise this river are you folding AA?

[/ QUOTE ]

Oink you're not bad enough to have played a jack like this so either you rivered a boat and talk yourself into overcall or something or are much worse than i thought. eff it i call i think you are FOS. Let's see 99.

- that's what i hear in my head at the table. Then i say "QT, pretty close, weird no flop c/r, i'm gonna 3-bet this guy more lolo"

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

Call and hope he has ak.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

LOL Maybe I am not running bad, I am just bad at poker.

I am glad I posted this hand. Its so [censored] obvious what I have and I cant expect any decent player who knows me to fold a better hand.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

Yeah given his stats he seems decent and if he thinks the same of you hes not gonna fold an overpair at least and i wouldnt and propably 95% of all players i know wouldnt. Raising can also get u in a spot when u have to fold for one bet in a huge pot or paying 3 bets for sd when u beat like 98% instead of paying 1 when theres still a decent chance u have the goods.

U r not bad at poker because of this Hand, i make certainly worse mistakes even when iam running good.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

It is absolutely nothing wrong with this raise if you´re sure that BB is fooling around.
You´re folding out an overpair more than 1 in 11 times IMO.
Button is sandwiched between two players and he is in a tough spot where he very well could think that he might have to put in three bets to see the showdown.

River raises of these kinds are not that common and I think that it is a much bigger chance that he interprets your raise for being a halfbadly slowplayed hand than a raise with a T.
The last action a player takes are usually better correlated to their actual hand value regardless of how he has played his hand uptil then.Most players knows that and will therefore lay down an overpair in this spot more often than most posters think IMO.

But you really have to be quite sure that BB hasn´t got it before making this raise.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

Button may know what hero is up to here if hero raises this river. Button perhaps knows about BB's playing style and will call two bets with KK/AA. He can't imagine you having a Jack here, and getting to the river here with 44 isn't very likely. So he might very well put you on AT (as he should) and call.

In general, I favor raising in this spot, because the bad player gives us a chance to squeeze out a better hand. But in this case, I think you get looked up far more often than usual because of the oddness of your river raise.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

No way button folds an overpair here. He seems decent enough, so he knows a thinking player would ALWAYS CR the field on the turn, if not the flop, with a J. I'd just call BB's donk and hope button overcalls with 99, 88, etc. and fold if I'm faced with any more bets.

Re: River play. Raise, fold or call.
 

fwiw there is a good chance BB has a jack here IMO