Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Seriously how is this man a legitimate candidate?

This is a long article, but well worth the time to read for any Republican seriously considering rudy for prez.

web page

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Pretty much reaffirms my impression of him all along. His whole campaign is based on him going "hey, remember me? From 9/11? Ima hero amirite?"

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Well, I think the article is slanted, but the questions it raises are very good.

I have felt this way about Rudy for a while. I find the whole aura around him a joke. There are also a lot of people in NY that hate his guts for being one of the more ardent supporters of the Rockefeller drug laws passed in the 80's.

I have very little respect for Rudy as a person as well.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Before I read the article, I just want to say that I am a fan of Rudy, not because of 9/11, but because he was a mayor. To me, he seems down to earth and doesn't have these extravagant policies that seem unattainable. I could be ignorant of him though and could be wrong.

Right now I'm considering Rudy and Huckabee on the R side, and Hillary, Edwards, and Biden on the D side. Those are just preliminary and my opinion will change.

Now, I'm going to read the article and see if my opinion of Rudy changes.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

I eagerly await your thoughts after reading the article.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

This article seems to blame him for the miscommunications of 9/11 between the police and fire dept., but I disagree. The NYPD and the NYFD are so large that they are their own entity in a way. Yes, Rudy could have gotten them together to have a plan, but the fact that they didn't shouldn't be blamed on him. However, that isn't the point of this thread.

I still don't see why he isn't a good candidate. That article wasn't written objectively.

Maybe you can convince me otherwise.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Did you read the entire article and focus only on that one bit?

Edit: Because I agree with you on that matter. I also don't think thats a massive issue in bigger picture.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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Did you read the entire article and focus only on that one bit?

Edit: Because I agree with you on that matter. I also don't think thats a massive issue in bigger picture.

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I read the entire article, but wrote that after I finished the 3rd page. Everyone is trying to say he's inexperienced. And their only argument is that we shouldn't rely on what happened on 9/11. Yeah, Rudy made some statements about Jihad, whatever, but to me, I still am not persuaded to think differently.

Could you give me your ideas and how you feel about the article?

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

[ QUOTE ]
Before I read the article, I just want to say that I am a fan of Rudy, not because of 9/11, but because he was a mayor. To me, he seems down to earth and doesn't have these extravagant policies that seem unattainable. I could be ignorant of him though and could be wrong.

Right now I'm considering Rudy and Huckabee on the R side, and Hillary, Edwards, and Biden on the D side. Those are just preliminary and my opinion will change.

Now, I'm going to read the article and see if my opinion of Rudy changes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I love the way you did this. (*makes note to self*)

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

If you really think he's your candidate, you should be asking what his stances are on our nations problems. What does he plan to do for the economy? Health Insurance? Budget deficits? Border Security? Foreign relations?

I mean the man was the mayor of a city, while NYC isn't an ordinary city, it still is a [censored] city.

Secondly, his entire platform appears to be "I am a terrorism expert". As the article mentions, thats a crock of [censored] because he really doesn't know anything about it. He knows how to "fight" white collar crime, and he's good at it. Being the mayor of a city that a terrorist attack occurs in doesn't qualify you as a terrorist expert, it simply means you what its like to go through a terrorist attack.

He also claims he has more foreign policy experience than any other candidate. Again, I don't see how this is even plausible.

So basically you have him campaigning on the back of two issues he knows little about. He has nothing to fall back on as far as domestic issues, because he never talks about them. We don't even know what his plan is for anything!


I have never understood this republican infatuation with Rudy. Is it because on 9/11 he acted like how they wanted the President to react? I mean, his core beliefs about family values and abortion seem to fly in the face of core Republican beliefs. So why do Republicans like him?

For that matter, why does anyone think he's qualified to be President?

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

I think it's more of the fact that he was a public figure that people can relate to. I'm sure if there was a group of people who fought with John McCain in Vietnam, they'd want to vote for him too. Rudy will probably get a large % of the votes in NY just because that is where he is from. As far as from the other states, I think it'll be largely divided.

I have been following the democrats a little more than the republicans because I always seem to miss the republican debates.

I'm a registered Republican, but I take the stance of whatever side I want to be on. I actually think I am more of a Democrat than anything. I'm also not a big expert on anything political.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Vote for Ron Paul.

Thanks for your answers btw.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Rudy would make a great President.....if he was elected after Carter. His legacy at the end of his last term would have been written a little differently I think if 9-11 hadn't happened. Something like, he did a great job, it was time for him to go. NYC was a disaster when he took over and the man was uncompromising in doing what he thought was right- and he didnt care who he pissed off. If you think Bush's policies are correct and want to continue fracturing relations with the rest of the world then he is your man.
Ron, Rudy isn't a big government guy but he is slimy. If you want a continuation of no bid contracts and business as usual than he is your guy.
I loved Rudy as the mayor of NYC-the transformation this city saw was incredible. He was a man for the times, I just don't think now is the time for him.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

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IMO, Giuliani is basically a modern-day Liberal except when it comes to law enforcement and Big Brother. Then he's a Republican plus.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

can't stand his opinions on national issues but the dude turned things around in NYC like nobody's business.

my parents told me stories of how they wouldn't take certain subway lines even in the middle of the day. now i walk through washington heights alone at 2am and never feel unsafe.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

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IMO, Giuliani is basically a modern-day Liberal except when it comes to law enforcement and Big Brother. Then he's a Republican plus.

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Actually if you go through his positions point by point he isn't as liberal as some want to make him out to be. The only area I have major disagreement with him is immigration, where his position is awful. Unfortunately Romney can't win the general, so Rudy is the man. hopefully he's heard the voice of the people on immigration

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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Seriously how is this man a legitimate candidate?

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He was mayor of New York when 9/11 happened. It takes serious presidential material to be in the right place at the right time like that!

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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If you think Bush's policies are correct and want to continue ... he is your man.

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Rudy isn't a big government guy

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Contradictory.

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There is nothing "tough" about Rudy G....just take a look at his divorce settlements.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

[/ QUOTE ]

IMO, Giuliani is basically a modern-day Liberal except when it comes to law enforcement and Big Brother. Then he's a Republican plus.

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

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I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

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I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

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It had to be voted on and pass correct? You can honestly say you do not believe that any of the democratic nominations for president arent salivating at having access to so much power? Get real, your party lines are blinding the real issue. Ill bet we are in complete agreement about a lot of things, its just that you think the libs arent as guilty of things, which is blatantly false.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

[/ QUOTE ]


It had to be voted on and pass correct? You can honestly say you do not believe that any of the democratic nominations for president arent salivating at having access to so much power? Get real, your party lines are blinding the real issue. Ill bet we are in complete agreement about a lot of things, its just that you think the libs arent as guilty of things, which is blatantly false.

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They are salivating over being the head puppet for the special interests, which will benefit their personal future.

You must be one of those silly americans who still believes the politicians run this country.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

[/ QUOTE ]


It had to be voted on and pass correct? You can honestly say you do not believe that any of the democratic nominations for president arent salivating at having access to so much power? Get real, your party lines are blinding the real issue. Ill bet we are in complete agreement about a lot of things, its just that you think the libs arent as guilty of things, which is blatantly false.

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They are salivating over being the head puppet for the special interests, which will benefit their personal future.

You must be one of those silly americans who still believes the politicians run this country.

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nothing to do with teh discussion, not saying I disagree, but you are going off on a tangent. Its possible to be salivating over more than one thing on your dinner plate.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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nothing to do with teh discussion, not saying I disagree, but you are going off on a tangent. Its possible to be salivating over more than one thing on your dinner plate.

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Why are they salivating over having such power? Is it an ego thing?

And don't forget the act that brought our freedoms in peril:
The Military Commissions Act. The same type of thing our citizens of past decades dealt with.

John Adams, with his Alien and Seditions Act, jailed newspaper editors.

Woodrow Wilson, with his Espionage Act, prosecuted 2k americans, most of whom were only guilty of vocalizing their advocacy for peace.

American speakers in American jails, for what they said about America.

FDR, with his executive order 9066, was necessary to save American lives, only to use it to imprison 110k Americans.
Secretary DeWitt told Congress: It does not matter that he/she is an American. They are still Japanese.

110k Americans. And they didn't even speak out against America.

How many people who post here, would love it, if those who do not agree with their view, could not post a reply. That they would have to post their reply on another forum, way out of the way of this one, and would be limited in what they could say there also.

That's what Bush got with his "Free Speech Zones."

Show me a presidential nominee who is screaming about doing away with the patriot act and every other act that imperils our freedoms and liberties, and then I may just consider registering to vote. Until then, I'm a Survivalist.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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nothing to do with teh discussion, not saying I disagree, but you are going off on a tangent. Its possible to be salivating over more than one thing on your dinner plate.

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Why are they salivating over having such power? Is it an ego thing?

And don't forget the act that brought our freedoms in peril:
The Military Commissions Act. The same type of thing our citizens of past decades dealt with.

John Adams, with his Alien and Seditions Act, jailed newspaper editors.

Woodrow Wilson, with his Espionage Act, prosecuted 2k americans, most of whom were only guilty of vocalizing their advocacy for peace.

American speakers in American jails, for what they said about America.

FDR, with his executive order 9066, was necessary to save American lives, only to use it to imprison 110k Americans.
Secretary DeWitt told Congress: It does not matter that he/she is an American. They are still Japanese.

110k Americans. And they didn't even speak out against America.

How many people who post here, would love it, if those who do not agree with their view, could not post a reply. That they would have to post their reply on another forum, way out of the way of this one, and would be limited in what they could say there also.

That's what Bush got with his "Free Speech Zones."

Show me a presidential nominee who is screaming about doing away with the patriot act and every other act that imperils our freedoms and liberties, and then I may just consider registering to vote. Until then, I'm a Survivalist.

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You are using an argumentative tone w/ me (unless my perceptions are wrong), and yet I agree with your stance?


I dont know if it is an ego thing, but a lot of it is a free speech issue (dems push to silence talk radio comes to mind). any of these people want unlimited access to power, they just dont want anyone else to have it too. I still vote though.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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Show me a presidential nominee who is screaming about doing away with the patriot act and every other act that imperils our freedoms and liberties, and then I may just consider registering to vote. Until then, I'm a Survivalist.

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I think there was a guy named Ru Paul or something...

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

[ QUOTE ]
The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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[ QUOTE ]
The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

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Even better than Orwell.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

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I agree.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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[ QUOTE ]
One thing I have learned, is that privacy is no longer an issue for the democrats, you have more liberals nowadays that dont care about what is being done to our privacy than ever. Both sides are way to apathetic about the issue imo, and it seems every time we have a discussion on "big brother" type issues, even the most hardcore libs on 2p2 come out in defense w/ the tired old argument "if Im not doing anything wrong, I dont see the problem"

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm a liberal and do not believe that. Bush is a conservative and initiated the patriot act.

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Please stop blaming Bush for this bipartisan legislation.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

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I agree.

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The only good cop is a dead cop
Police brutality
Must come to a stop
Dem kill latinos
Dem kill more black
Luima in brooklyn,
Diallo in the bronx
We spark rebellion,
Watch them get rocked
Self-defense is not a violent act
Police murder
Budget get cut back
Guilliani send his troops to attack
They soon retreat
Watch them run back

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[/ QUOTE ]most wouldn't. Its a different perspective for you because you're a cop.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

Ron, this one is better:
http://www.lyricsdepot.com/screwball/who-shot-rudy.html

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

SNL is gonna love it if rudy + hillary gets the nom

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

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I agree.

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It's times like these I wish Bill Hicks was still alive.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree.

[/ QUOTE ]

The only good cop is a dead cop
Police brutality
Must come to a stop
Dem kill latinos
Dem kill more black
Luima in brooklyn,
Diallo in the bronx
We spark rebellion,
Watch them get rocked
Self-defense is not a violent act
Police murder
Budget get cut back
Guilliani send his troops to attack
They soon retreat
Watch them run back

[/ QUOTE ]

No law = chaos. You have to give up some freedom to have security. I'm not saying I agree with the policies that Rudy may have to have secure borders or insure security through America, but I agree with his statement through my own interpretation.

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It's times like these I wish Bill Hicks was still alive.

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I don't understand this comment.

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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The main knock on Guiliani I've heard from most conservatives is that he's extremely authoritarian and big-government. He supports the national ID cards. His belief in the 2nd amendment is questionable. From what he says in the debates, I get the impression he thinks people should give up all their rights and privacy in order to let the govt protect them from terrorists.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority (in other words, me) a great deal of discretion about what you do."

-- Rudy

[/ QUOTE ]

Re: Rudy G\'s Tough Talk
 

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"Freedom is about authority. Freedom is about the willingness of every single human being to cede to lawful authority a great deal of discretion about what you do." - Rudy Giuliani

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No law = chaos. You have to give up some freedom to have security. I'm not saying I agree with the policies that Rudy may have to have secure borders or insure security through America, but I agree with his statement through my own interpretation.

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I don't disagree with you on "some" but I do strongly disagree with Rudy on "a great deal of".

Also, you're talking about security whereas Giuliani is talking about freedom.