Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

I know this is related to the ESPN WSOP thread but it deserves a comment of its own...i just cant tolerate watching ESPN and the 'frustrated poker player' when a bad card hits or a flop doesnt pan out, especially moneymaker and gold...i simply couldnt stand watching moneymaker huff and puff about all his 'bad luck'...does he remember the 2 outer he hit on umberto brenes with pocket 8's vs. aces in 2003? if he loses that hand, he most likely isnt more than a quick fart in the wind in wsop history...how about his full house on the river vs. ivey with 10 players left?...so he comes back in 2007, gets run over by a couple of 'amateurs' (chris YOU ARE AN AMATEUR) and acts like he has the WORST LUCK of any tourney pro.

Similarly, Jamie Gold had that "Ugh, i just cant pick up a hand look" in the hands they showed. When ESPN shows 7/8 hands of one guy and hes pouting, you can multiply that pouting by 10 for a 15 hour day. Dude, YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE 11.9 million dollars left over.

Hellmuth i can take because of the hilarity. But these other 'pros' who complain about their luck in the world series is getting gut wrenching to watch. And the guy who flopped a straight and the board had 4 spades when the river came was all WAH WAH WAH (the hand where the other guy had the king of spades and called the slowplayed A of spades)...doesnt this happen ONCE A NIGHT TO ALL OF US IN A LIVE GAME!! (several times a night online)...what is so unusual about this! Theres THOUSANDS of PLAYERS. ITS ONE OF THE THE BIGGEST TOURNEYS in HISTORY. For gosh sakes, its hard to win a single table SNG nevermind a tournament with 6000/8000 players. When are these idiot 'champions' who should be graceful endorsers of the sport going to realize this!!!!?? im done.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

I can understand being frustrated when you get sucked out on in a huge tourney like the Main Event. Mumbling about your bad luck, while tacky, is forgivable. It's human nature. Berating your opponents and calling them idiots, etc. (e.g., what Devilfish did), is unacceptable. At least Moneymaker called himself an idiot, not his opponents.

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I don`t think Moneymakers behaviour was bad. He has way more class than Jamie Gold.

Gold is painful to watch. He gives away a lot of chips in one of the first hands in the tournament, trying to push an idiotic bluff through.
Couple minutes later he complains about being shortstacked and not able to risk anything no more.

I guess someone should have told him before the ME this year, he won`t start with 60 millions in chips in front of him, so he can call everyone with 2 3 hoping to get lucky again and again. I was shaking my head when he was talking to the rail saying something like "This is ridiculous, I am already shortstacked..."

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my pick for number one cry baby is Joe Hashem, he begs for cards, which i cant stand. c'mon dealer one time, and them pouts like a 5 year old when he gets his money in with the worst hand. c'mon dealer, one time.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

Jen Harman gets my vote, after watching HSP for a season or two she has a terrible scowl if she loses a pot or has to lay down a hand. What Cory Zeidman did to her was abysmal but apart from that she is just a little moaning baby on TV at least.

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I wasn't too impressed with ol' JGOLD...

The swede(?) Haugaard(?) seemed to totally have Gold's number.
He even said to Gold, "don't you know that we all watched the
2006 WSOP ME on TV? We're wise to your anticts, Jamie."

At which point, I was thinking, Jamie should just shut up,
play his cards, and stop trying to win every single hand.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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At which point, I was thinking, Jamie should just shut up, play his cards, and stop trying to win every single hand.

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Is that what you say about the players on your favorite sports team? "You've won in the past, so stop trying so hard to win right now?"

Its the competition. Competitors want to win. Its that simple.

It doesn't matter what you have done in the past. You are playing in the here and now, and you want to win here and now. All of the emotion that comes with the desire to win shows in the moment, in this hand in this game.

A professional athlete on your favorite team that has won previous championships doesn't say, "Ah, what the hell, I've already won a bunch of these. I don't care if I make any plays this game." He plays to win at that moment in that game.

Over the long run, each of the poker players on TV may be content to some degree with their success and their bank account, but we are watching them express the desire at that moment -- win.

Previous success doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to push yourself. That's a primary difference between winning and losing players.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

op's rant B-

you forgot to mention Gold complaining, saying how "sick" it was, and storming away from the table when he made a straight w/ 52o and had to fold

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my pick for number one cry baby is Joe Hashem, he begs for cards, which i cant stand. c'mon dealer one time, and them pouts like a 5 year old when he gets his money in with the worst hand. c'mon dealer, one time.

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I agree 100% with this. The most life tilting thing I've heard in my life is joe hachem getting sucked out on in the 2006 main event.

He then said what makes me "almost" hate him ( he's still a nice guy but wow...) :

"STORY OF MY LIFE"


?!?!?!?! Ok the guy wins the main event and the story of his life is getting sucked out on deep in the next main event...

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

OTOH, I don't think I've ever seen Steven Dannenmann without a smile on his face

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I think I posted this, I was playing in the "Ante up for Africa" event and Shannon Elizabeth semi lost it when her AA got cracked by AJ. I also flopped 2 pair on her and check raised her on the turn after she aggro-ed off 2 bets. She looked at me and I smiled and said, well I can't call you and I said "that was sort of my goal actually, considering the last card might make you in some weird way". But her overall attitude was, "you might not know who I am but I am Shannon Elizabeth, professional poker player".

The attitude (Joe Hachem is by far the worst at this) comes from seemingly being ordained because you won something once. No one begrudges any of them the fact that there 55 held up against AK one time but the what you are saying does get annoying.

All of that said, they are only human, I have found myself frustrated in the manner that Phil Gordon was and I have actually said something to my opponents. It is difficult when you are getting miracled by players that believe they need to play to get lucky. There is a reason you only see a numbnuts hitting a 2 outer, good players fold in those situations.

I don't think Chris Moneymaker is thinking at all about the few times he got lucky and in fact he almost always had the worst hand when he won in this event. There is just a weight that is on you and because you lucksacked once you figure that at some future point you should be able to lucksack again. Unfortunately, the probability on that might be against you.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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At which point, I was thinking, Jamie should just shut up, play his cards, and stop trying to win every single hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that what you say about the players on your favorite sports team? "You've won in the past, so stop trying so hard to win right now?"

Its the competition. Competitors want to win. Its that simple.

It doesn't matter what you have done in the past. You are playing in the here and now, and you want to win here and now. All of the emotion that comes with the desire to win shows in the moment, in this hand in this game.

A professional athlete on your favorite team that has won previous championships doesn't say, "Ah, what the hell, I've already won a bunch of these. I don't care if I make any plays this game." He plays to win at that moment in that game.

Over the long run, each of the poker players on TV may be content to some degree with their success and their bank account, but we are watching them express the desire at that moment -- win.

Previous success doesn't mean that you shouldn't continue to push yourself. That's a primary difference between winning and losing players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you read the post you're responding to?

Does a pro baseball player try to hit every pitch? He never said Gold shouldn't try to win the ME, just not every hand.

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even dannenmann was really heated with hellmuth in that TOC brodcast if i recall..

if i ever manage to get unlucky on tv (unlikely!) i will try not to act like this, haha

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I thought Moneymaker was fine. Someone in the WSOP mentioned how miserable he looked at the table. The dude to me just seems like a competitor and he wants to win. Everyone has their own way of acting, but I do know that I'm not trying to smile and make jokes at the poker table, I'm trying to compete. Hachem seems like a nice guy, I always thought of his talk at the table just a way to find something to say, because the dude likes to talk. Devilfish, on the other hand, is a whole 'nother story. And Jamie Gold needs to shut up about how unlucky he is. One thing that people may not understand though is that these players may have been on a downswing before the ME even started. Especially for Gold, I wouldn't be surprised if he had been losing for months and months between the last ME and this one. No matter how fortunate you are to win the whole thing one time, it can still be taxing to lose time and time again. At some point it starts to get to you.

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YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE 11.9 million dollars left over.



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Gold bought into the main event for $100k? What a fish.

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YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE 11.9 million dollars left over.



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Gold bought into the main event for $100k? What a fish.

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$10,000 X 10 = $100,000.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE 11.9 million dollars left over.



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Gold bought into the main event for $100k? What a fish.

[/ QUOTE ]

You write trip reports better than you read.

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hahaha i'm a retard

missed the "ten years" part

Guess I should go take back all the high-fives I solicited from around the office for pwning a stranger on the internet

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Dude, YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE 5.9 million dollars left over.

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Dude, YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE fking blueberries left over.

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Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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my pick for number one cry baby is Joe Hashem, he begs for cards, which i cant stand. c'mon dealer one time, and them pouts like a 5 year old when he gets his money in with the worst hand. c'mon dealer, one time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100% with this. The most life tilting thing I've heard in my life is joe hachem getting sucked out on in the 2006 main event.

He then said what makes me "almost" hate him ( he's still a nice guy but wow...) :

"STORY OF MY LIFE"


?!?!?!?! Ok the guy wins the main event and the story of his life is getting sucked out on deep in the next main event...

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh shi*...did he really say STORY OF MY LIFE!?!?!?! i gotta go back and watch the tape. Maybe this year's complaining isnt as bad as i thought it was because that one statement would outcomplain Hellmuth's lifetime of complaints exponentially.

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Dude, YOU WON THE WHOLE THING FOR 12 MILLION DOLLARS IN 2006!! WHO CARES IF YOU GET KNOCKED OUT ON DAY ONE FOR THE NEXT TEN YEARS. YOULL STILL HAVE 5.9 million dollars left over.

[/ QUOTE ]

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lol...nice...im sure theres a thread here but im too lazy to look for it...does anyone have any rumors on the amount of the settlement? was it 6 million...i cant imagine it was 6 million cause gold said last night he was extremely happy with the outcome...im thinking 500K to 1M and running since they settled on the first day according to gold

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But her overall attitude was, "you might not know who I am but I am Shannon Elizabeth, professional poker player".

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i cant stop laughing at this..does anyone have any opinions on whether she got lucky to get as far as she did in the headsup tourney or whether it was mostly skill...there was some serious competition there...even if shannon won the world series i cant see anyone taking her any more seriously than an average girl at a 1/2 no limit game in the mirage

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

anyway to all who think Moneymaker didnt go overboard with his huffing and puffing, i stand by it...i think hes turned into a frustrated as*...on an ESPN chat, i remember the first question was "is moneymaker your real name?"...its a stupid question and hes been asked it a thousand times, but answer it a 1001 times with class...people are curious and this is the first time they are speaking to you...he answered "are you seriously ansking that question?"...a bit off topic but the minute i saw him do that i knew the attention fame had A) gotten to his head B) gotten to much to handle...your a former world champ...act the part with class please

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

I bet that blind guy was pretty frustrated... you'd never know it though, classy!!

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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my pick for number one cry baby is Joe Hashem, he begs for cards, which i cant stand. c'mon dealer one time, and them pouts like a 5 year old when he gets his money in with the worst hand. c'mon dealer, one time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree 100% with this. The most life tilting thing I've heard in my life is joe hachem getting sucked out on in the 2006 main event.

He then said what makes me "almost" hate him ( he's still a nice guy but wow...) :

"STORY OF MY LIFE"


?!?!?!?! Ok the guy wins the main event and the story of his life is getting sucked out on deep in the next main event...

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you've been leveled by Hachem. I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic with his comment. I reacted similarly to you, but then thought that it must be a rehearsed sarcastic line that was delivered with a little too much emotion. As an ironic line, it's pretty good.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

he was so serious and tilted though... maybe...

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

Yep - Moneynmaker looks like such a chump. He reminds me of someone who thinks their good at a sport - like golf - so they constantly throw their clubs after every bad shot. He acts like winning the ME automatically makes him a great poker player, when the fact is he was not a very good player before the ME, and he's not all that much better now. His looks of disgust at his play, the cards, his opponents, is just anything BUT what you would see from a great player.

Maybe there is a psychological thing that happens to ME winners that makes them behave so badly. Maybe it's just hard to re-baseline your game after you go on a phenomenal luckbox ride. Maybe Gold just can't go abck to solid poker because he's been re-wired to think he's great and can just will his stack to grow to 10 million by the second day.

Moneymaker doesn't look to happy either. His attitude should be "wow, I actually won the WSOP ME - unreal - I'm set for life - I can try to get good at poker, but everything is icing on the cake from now on." Instead, he looks like he stays awake at night wondering how many people think he was fluke and how he can prove them wrong.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

I think that for Moneymaker and Gold that it was so easy the first time -- everything going their way, catching their draws when they needed to, getting people to bluff off their stacks when they had the nuts, etc. -- that they just tilt when they have a regular tournament where everything isn't perfectly aligned for them.

When you look at how they behave, compared to Raymer and Hachem, who seem to have a lot more experience and tournament play under their belts, there is a big difference. Yeah, Hachem whines some, but I don't find him to be that annoying... and I have never heard Raymer complain once - even after the horrific beat he took from Kanter in 2005.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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I have never heard Raymer complain once - even after the horrific beat he took from Kanter in 2005.

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that's because Raymer understands the enormous variance inherent in donkaments....most others don't.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

There was an interview with Jamie Gold sooner in this years WSOP, where he was complaining that he thinks players don`t have enough starting chips in the smaller events. (I believe it was a 3000$ buyin NLH event)

What TexRef is pointing out fits perfectly for Gold in my opinion. He had such a huge stack early in the ME last year, he was able to afford calling every bet preflop and than catching huge hands and rolling on.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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I have never heard Raymer complain once - even after the horrific beat he took from Kanter in 2005.

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that's because Raymer understands the enormous variance inherent in donkaments....most others don't.

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closest Raymer came to complaining was after that hand saying "You tried to give me all of your chips.", but he said it with a sense of humor.

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I think in all WSOP episodes from 04 till 07 Raymer showed class (at least what was shown on TV). Just remember when Matusow was berating him, Raymer didn`t go off or something. Not shaking Matusow`s hand was just fine.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

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anyway to all who think Moneymaker didnt go overboard with his huffing and puffing, i stand by it...i think hes turned into a frustrated as*...on an ESPN chat, i remember the first question was "is moneymaker your real name?"...its a stupid question and hes been asked it a thousand times, but answer it a 1001 times with class...people are curious and this is the first time they are speaking to you...he answered "are you seriously ansking that question?"...a bit off topic but the minute i saw him do that i knew the attention fame had A) gotten to his head B) gotten to much to handle...your a former world champ...act the part with class please

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I don't get this. The people were asking him ridiculous question after ridiculous question at the table. Let's assume before his luckbox win Moneymaker wasn't much at table-talk, why should he change now. I remember watching this and thinking if it was me I would be pissed off.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

I'm not a "professional" poker player like all your 2+2ers but Gold getting knocked out was the highlight of my 07 ME so far (last episode I've seen)
Getting shortstacked on bad bluffs & better opponent calls...."we're wise to you" says the bald Swede calling his Ace high bluff.
Gold getting bluffed off his winning hand right before he went out was another highlight......
In my opinion he plays WAY to many hands.......thinking they're going to magically win like they did last year.
See ya in 08' Gold.

Re: Frustrated Poker Players on ESPN
 

[x] Can't find edit button.

Re-reading the thread.....
[ QUOTE ]
you forgot to mention Gold complaining, saying how "sick" it was, and storming away from the table when he made a straight w/ 52o and had to fold

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Classic: He had the low end of flushed out board with a higher straight possible.........
Not only did the one person flop the nut flush....and another a lower flush....there was someone w/ A7, making a higher straight. He was 4th out of 4 with his straight but he still mumbled how "sick" that hand was.

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Gold going out quickly was amazing....the second he started blabbing his big mouth in the FIRST hand with NOTHING I knew he would be out quickly.

He can only play if he has a big stack.....as the table bully.

Houggard had him the entire time....even called out his hand. "I can beat your J, 10", which was spot on to what Gold had. Wouldve loved to see him call that bluff.

Gold is terrible. TERRIBLE.

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I get a kick out of how so many of you are so quick to opine about how someone like a Chris Moneymaker should act four years after he won the ME. Seriously, for most of you, the high point of your life was in hitting three Liberty Bells on a scratch off lottery ticket. Yet, you know exactly how he and Hachem and others that you have an axe to grind against, should act at EVERY MOMENT OF EVERY DAY.

Yes, Hachem was an idiot to whine about his bad luck as if it was the story of his life. BUT, if you look at his comments in total since he won he is extremely humble, grateful and understands that luck played a significant role in his winning the ME.

No one understands that more than Moneymaker and I would suspect that he has told more interviewers that he considers himself very lucky to have won then any other MR winner.

If any of you who keep trashing these guys actually play tournaments on a regular basis you will see that the comments you are hearing are pretty mild.

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u guys probably didn't see shannon Elizabeth complaining about the other guy when she got rivered, one of the guy said that shannon is old and not hot anymore and they would rather see Kathy liebert naked than her, that pissed Shannon off and called the floorman but unfortunately the floorman agreed with the other guy.

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I gotta say that if all this hate is based on this week's episode of the ME then I just do not get it.

Was I watching the same broadcast? Moneymaker and Gold were both obviously frustrated but they also clearly held themselves accountable and yelled at no one for their misfortune. What are you all talking about?

Gold explicitly said he played like crap about 5 times, how is this complaining about anything but himself? This guy is getting way too much held over animosity, he hasn't said anything obnoxious on tv since last years ME, give him a break already. Surely his antics are not worth starting another thread over.