Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

Button over 50 hands was playing 45% of the flops and raising preflop 27%

Decided this was a good time to 3 bet preflop giving the situation and hand.

Figured I had to call the allin after betting the flop bc his ranged included ak, aq, aj, kq, etc....

If he had a big pair....I figured I had some outs and backdoor outs also....

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.50/$1 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (SB): $111.55
BB: $127.05
UTG: $94.75
MP: $98.50
CO: $107.70
BTN: $100.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
3 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $5.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $16.00</font>, BB folds, BTN calls $11.00

Flop: ($33) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $30.00</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises all-in to $84.25</font>, Hero calls $54.25

Turn: ($201.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($201.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $201.50 ($3 Rake)

BTN had Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Queens) and WON (+$98.25)
Hero had 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Sevens) and LOST (-$100.25)

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

i hardly ever 3bet light OOP, because it sucks being OOP in spots like this. having said that, it isn't that bad really. i would call his shove here with top pair. i think you have the correct odds against his range. you only need 27% equity. here is a reasonable range with AKs (not hearts) as a few bluff outs.

---
50,490 games 0.005 secs 10,098,000 games/sec

Board: 7h 2h 4s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 26.344% 26.34% 00.00% 13301 0.00 { 7c6c }
Hand 1: 73.656% 73.66% 00.00% 37189 0.00 { 77+, AKs, AhQh, AhJh, AhTh, KhQh }

with this range it is a call just about. i think villain looks spewey enough to do this with a much wider range

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

why did you feel this was a good time for a 3-bet pre-flop?

i think it sucks because he's likely not folding, and you're building a pot out of position against an erratic player.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

Thats what I figured....didnt like calling...more off a call n pray.....but I thought mathematically...it was correct.....

The button was out of control and figured it was time to take advantage of it.....

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

Don't like, this is not the type of opponent to be doing this against. A guy with these stats is pretty much always going to call your 3 bet, so you end up in a big pot OOP with 7 high against a guy who doesn't like to fold. Save these type of 3 bets for nits.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Thats what I figured....didnt like calling...more off a call n pray.....but I thought mathematically...it was correct.....

The button was out of control and figured it was time to take advantage of it.....

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't get it. plz explain the math behind your 3-bet?

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

3 bet pf is fine but his calling range doesnt shrink in poss, like yours should oop. did you beat 50 and 25nl?

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet pf is fine but his calling range doesnt shrink in poss, like yours should oop. did you beat 50 and 25nl?

[/ QUOTE ]

is this addressed to me?

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3 bet pf is fine but his calling range doesnt shrink in poss, like yours should oop. did you beat 50 and 25nl?

[/ QUOTE ]

link please to any post you have made where you have said something nice/constructive. PF 3bet is actually very marginal IMO

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

after continuation bet on the flop......mathematically i had to call the all in I was trying to address....

But after posting and reading.....I see I could have made a better play with a better hand....

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
after continuation bet on the flop......mathematically i had to call the all in I was trying to address....

But after posting and reading.....I see I could have made a better play with a better hand....

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

pf is disgusting, what are some of you guys thinking??

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
pf is disgusting, what are some of you guys thinking??

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, 3b made hands against players like this, don't get impatient and do it with a hand like this

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

Looks like a spew to me. the 3-bet pre-flop is fine, but not out-of-position with a weak hand that can't showdown. also, the 3-bet pre-flop builds the pot up early so that your flop continuation bet is big enough to commit a material portion of your stack. I would not make this call without at least a decent overpair like JJ. This is because unless your opponent is capable of a stone-cold bluff with air in this spot (even after your 3-bet pre-flop), you are usually going to lose the pot. This is because with anything less than JJ, you are usually behind to a bigger overpair - and even when you are against some sort of two-way draw, you still lose half the time, so in the long run, it's too costly.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

ask yourself why you played pf like you did. so many people just 3bet light bc 2p2 says to and they say others do it.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Looks like a spew to me. the 3-bet pre-flop is fine, but not out-of-position with a weak hand that can't showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
I would not make this call without at least a decent overpair like JJ. This is because unless your opponent is capable of a stone-cold bluff with air in this spot (even after your 3-bet pre-flop), you are usually going to lose the pot. This is because with anything less than JJ, you are usually behind to a bigger overpair - and even when you are against some sort of two-way draw, you still lose half the time, so in the long run, it's too costly.

[/ QUOTE ]

our hand is better than 77 since we have more outs than we would wiht 88. once we pot the flop we have to call, we have equity.

like others have said, the 3bet pf is gross in this spot.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

do you have enough equity against a range of say, AhKh, AhQh, AhJh, 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, AA to make the all-in call on the flop?

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
do you have enough equity against a range of say, AhKh, AhQh, AhJh, 1010, JJ, QQ, KK, AA to make the all-in call on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

i took the word of whoever said earlier that we do. plug it into pokerstove yourself if you want. i'm on a Mac but i'm guessing we have 25-30% equity.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

Preflop is real bad.

No choice but to call it off on the flop as played.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

He's calling PF right? He's pretty loose... I wouldn't be 4betting with SC until you're like 200bb deep.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

don't 3bet light against lags

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

against this guy i think we should be 3betting hands like ATo a lot more and scs a lot less

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

Preflop is a bluff and its not good vs this opponent.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
don't 3bet light against lags

[/ QUOTE ]

do 3bet light against lags, but not lagtards. 3bet lags that can fold

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
don't 3bet light against lags

[/ QUOTE ]

From blinds

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

If you're going to 3bet light against this opponent, you're going to get called by lots of broadway type hands that missed this flop. Why did you cbet so much? To me the biggest mistake in this hand is the flop bet. Just bet like 18 and fold to a raise. You're going to know whether he has an overpair or not and you can find out for much cheaper than committing yourself. He's not going to fold TT or anything so $18 is as good as $30.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
don't 3bet light against lags

[/ QUOTE ]

From blinds

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, forgot to say, out of position bad, in position not too bad

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

3 betting this out of position is a hugely -ev play, as is 3betting with 7 high and stacking off on a 7 high board in a 3 bet pot. if this is the first time you've 3bet him i dont think his range for flopshoving includes king jack or king queen or anything of the sort. back to preflop, fold &gt; call &gt; raise. he even let you off easy, as your flop cbet shows you're going no where since you chose to pot it. like someone above me said, 20 will do the same as 30 since you're bluffing although according to your op, you seem to think hes willing to stack off with like king high and you're valuebetting.

Re: Did I spew chips here or just a bad spot?
 

PF is gross. You wanna make a hand against these kind of players.

This is a spew.