5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

villain is unknown, this is less than 20 hands in. he had 3 bet me 3 times so far, big sized raises to 110 or 120. i called one and folded the TT8 flop. usually he had been raising to 30 or 40, although once he minraised and folded to a turn bet after the flop went check check on 2-Q-6-K

he pushed so quickly that i think AA/KK can be discounted from his range.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $5/$10 Blinds - 2 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

Hero (BB): $934.00
SB: $1,064.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB raises to $20.00</font>, <font color="red">Hero raises to $70.00</font>, <font color="red">SB raises all-in to $1,064.00</font>

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

drop it quick.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
drop it quick.

[/ QUOTE ]why?

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

i also think its a fold.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

The last time I called in an almost identical scenario I was up against 99 and lost [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

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i also think its a fold.

[/ QUOTE ]
why

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
drop it quick.

[/ QUOTE ]why?

[/ QUOTE ]

because he thinks you're behind his range....

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

why would you think that though

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

you gotta be right here like 45% of the time? i dont think you have that much equity thats all.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

really? i think with a fast shove like this its basically never AA/KK, and very often pairs i dominate and big cards. i think what we should be most worried about is 99 TT and JJ. but if his range is like, 22-JJ and AQ+ then its a call. would anyone dispute that range?

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

dont think its a pair 6s and below often at all. maybe you can throw in AJs though.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

you cant completely discount KK+ at all imo.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

i mean noone would ever dream of folding JJ here, prob not even TT, 88 isnt really that huge of a difference

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

i would dream of folding TT, prob not JJ.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

ya im rly worried a lot more about 99-TT than anything else. I probably call more than I should, and you would know best since you have played him a bit.

Has he shown anything down that would lead you to believe he's a bit overaggro? I think given the minraise-3bet allin I might give it a little more credit and fold here.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

at the time i couldnt recall a showdown but turns out there was one where he played turned top pair crap kicker v weak

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

The difference between TT/JJ and 88 is that when you have the bigger pairs you're crushing him when he decides to get cute with T9s or JTs, as well as beating 88-TT, all of which helps make up for the times when he flips over QQ and you cry a little bit inside.

I think a more realistic range for him is 66+/AJs+/AQo+/T9s/JTs/KQs, which you're not in very good shape against with 88.

Also like I said on IRC it's a small pot and it's ok to fold a situation like this because if he's [censored] around here he'll have some pretty huge leaks that you'll be able to take advantage of later on.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
The difference between TT/JJ and 88 is that when you have the bigger pairs you're crushing him when he decides to get cute with T9s or JTs, as well as beating 88-TT, all of which helps make up for the times when he flips over QQ and you cry a little bit inside.

I think a more realistic range for him is 66+/AJs+/AQo+/T9s/JTs/KQs, which you're not in very good shape against with 88.

[/ QUOTE ]
these are good points i think

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Also like I said on IRC it's a small pot and it's ok to fold a situation like this because if he's [censored] around here he'll have some pretty huge leaks that you'll be able to take advantage of later on.

[/ QUOTE ]
these arent

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

AK/TT+

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
AK/TT+

[/ QUOTE ]
why would you call AK and fold 88, 88 &gt; AK

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

Could you give me a plausible range for villain where that's true?

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK/TT+

[/ QUOTE ]
why would you call AK and fold 88, 88 &gt; AK

[/ QUOTE ]

......

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

one reason you might wanna fold is b/c ppl tend to play better when they have bigger stacks. so if you're wrong and you double him up, it could change the whole dynamic of the match.

obviously if you think your range is way ahead of his you should call, but if you're unsure, then that's one reason i'd advocate a fold.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

u called with KQ last time in this spot i dont c y not 77

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
AK/TT+

[/ QUOTE ]
why would you call AK and fold 88, 88 &gt; AK

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lol, AK is a flip at worst (well excl. vs AA or KK), 88 is a flip as best.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

i think calling this is bad. it's much closer if it goes 30- 110, arren, but this is a fold dude.

this is rly close with TT, fairly close with 99, and TT is prob a call and 99 is prob a fold, but they're the fence hands, this isn't close imo.

i think you dominate like never and 99-JJ is soooooooooo much of his range

i would fistpump with JJ+ AK, call with TT and question AQ

this is a fold, fo sho

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
u called with KQ last time in this spot i dont c y not 77

[/ QUOTE ]that was because i wanted a big stack vs the fish, this is an entirely different spot

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

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i think calling this is bad. it's much closer if it goes 30- 110, arren, but this is a fold dude.


[/ QUOTE ]
what, i think its a much easier fold if it goes 30-110-ai

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i think calling this is bad. it's much closer if it goes 30- 110, arren, but this is a fold dude.


[/ QUOTE ]
what, i think its a much easier fold if it goes 30-110-ai

[/ QUOTE ]

whoa, seems backwards to me. with 20-70 arren, his range for minraising is much more likely to be polarized to strong hands and weak hands, whereas weak hands will nvr (or so rarely) shove obv. with 70 as the last bet he's makin gmore of an overbet, you'e getting less of a price-i think it's so much closer as 30-110 arrenen

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
Could you give me a plausible range for villain where that's true?

[/ QUOTE ]
22-JJ, AQ+?

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

btw, this is KK as much as it is 77 for sure

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

btw, i disagree with like everything youve said in this thread

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

Very little of this guy's range is pairs lower than yours, if at all. A reasonably range is 66+ and AJs+, you don't fare well against this. You cannot completely discount AA/KK/QQ because some people play these hands in this fashion, getting it in when given the opportunity. Add that to the prevalence of TT and JJ, and the fact that you flip a lot of his other hands, and this is a losing call. If he's willing to overbet like a maniac like this, other spots to pick him off will arise.

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

we already established hes more aggro and a little crazy based on the first 20 hands.

i know it seems like im just being stubborn as hell and not changing my mind but its because every time someone makes a point i disagree with it. for what reason would we discount small pairs? he shoved fast for 900 more. why would we think he likes his hand?

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

another spot i think you're missing is that your edge over someone like this (in all likelihood) is probably better than +&lt;50$ or -&lt;$100 in EV

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

actually thats like the first point in this thread that i really agree with and didnt realize before. but whats to say that he would leave/stay after winning/losing this pot? usually over aggro players like these arent hit n runners i dont think

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
actually thats like the first point in this thread that i really agree with and didnt realize before. but whats to say that he would leave/stay after winning/losing this pot? usually over aggro players like these arent hit n runners i dont think

[/ QUOTE ]

ive found overaggro players are much more likely to hitnrun. they are trying to get their money and in and have something happen. i can easily see him leaving if he stacks you here

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

yeh i suppose thats really the only thing leaning me towards fold, although i certainly didnt consider that aspect at the time

if people want to go ahead and keep discussing feel free, results in white fwiw

<font color="white"> i held vs 33 </font>

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

why would him hit and running have anything to do with whether or not you should call?

Re: 5/10 hu preflop decision for stacks with 88
 

[ QUOTE ]
another spot i think you're missing is that your edge over someone like this (in all likelihood) is probably better than +&lt;50$ or -&lt;$100 in EV

[/ QUOTE ]