thin calldown vs reef
 

Villain is 2p2er reef, a good(imo) TAG. We have some history of aggressive play /w thin value bets and thin calls. He probably views me as a bad player. MP was some fish, hence the iso raise.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (5 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG ($225.60)
MP ($397.65)
Button ($637.90)
Hero ($1115.50)
BB ($600)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls $6, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $24</font>, BB calls $18, MP folds.

Flop: ($54) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $36</font>, BB calls $36.

Turn: ($126) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $80</font>, Hero calls $80.

River: ($286) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $255</font>, Hero calls $255.

Final Pot: $796

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

yea reef is known for making lots of big floats and also turning hands with showdown value into bluffs so considering that at least one draw missed i think you can safely call this

nh owned gg etc

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

I'd say your good like 20% of the time here.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

Fold fish

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

I would bet more on the flop. 2/3 seems smallish on a drawy board. I'd also fold river.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

I admit that his turn and river actions are somewhat incongruous but this is a really bad calldown against anyone let alone a weak tight idiot like Reef

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

against reef. i would check this flop oop sometimes, depeding on recent table dynamics and stuff. if i did bet though, i would either continue through with a turn bet or check fold. i really don't like the ole check call on a board like this.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

If you're gonna check/call the turn then you just can't check/call again on the river.. almost no chance of winning.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

it seems like he's repping exactly a flush.. so i would try to interpret that fact as best i could and react accordingly..

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

nice call on the river when everything hits

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

[ QUOTE ]
nice call on the river when everything hits

[/ QUOTE ]

how often do you think you will look at QT here?

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
nice call on the river when everything hits

[/ QUOTE ]

how often do you think you will look at QT here?

[/ QUOTE ]

as often as Im looking at a flush

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

flushes are really good hands and not easy to have

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

i just noticed that this isn't a standard sb v bb confrontation, which i'd say changes the dynamic of this hand hugely

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

Probably would bet turn here, or perhaps c/r it if you check. He's rarely strong enough to call a c/r (or maybe he'll make a hero call with a worse hand/draw!), but if you just call, lots of rivers are rough for you decision-wise. Plus if he checks behind, you have a much smaller pot to worry about being behind in when this river comes off.

As played, it comes down to you and him. Many players will fire this river with most of the hands they got there with, because they can, but then again all of his drawing hands did get there. So really the only thing you're beating is a naked float, something like a pair of jacks turned into a bluff, or like T8. I think a fold would be well-advised without more specific reads.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

[ QUOTE ]
Probably would bet turn here, or perhaps c/r it if you check. He's rarely strong enough to call a c/r (or maybe he'll make a hero call with a worse hand/draw!), but if you just call, lots of rivers are rough for you decision-wise. Plus if he checks behind, you have a much smaller pot to worry about being behind in when this river comes off.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think I disagree with everything you just wrote. Like PS said this isn't an usual blind vs. blind confrontation and I'd expect Reef's pf range to be pretty strong, so playing a big pot just seems dumb. I think your whole post comes off as justifying cookie-cutter plays at the expense of EV.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

I dont like the iso raise.

Fold river.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

[ QUOTE ]
really the only thing you're beating is a naked float, something like a pair of jacks turned into a bluff, or like T8. I think a fold would be well-advised without more specific reads.

[/ QUOTE ]
taken out of context, completely agree.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

don't like pf, but if i was to iso-raise i'd make it at least $30. river is a fold, no need for fps imo.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

horrible hand to isolate oop with, horrible spot to call down in

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

c/f turn.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

or c/c turn and fold EVERY river since he can vtown every single hand better than yours.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

I hate pre; flop bet more; turn is close; river a fold.

Re: thin calldown vs reef
 

i think its really important how often you've been isolating here, or how aggro you are pre and what he thinks of your preflop range here.