spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

mp1 83/16/1 one of the good kind that overplays bad hands for you. <font color="white"> err...maybe that's hero? </font>
mp2 is 35/7/2 basicly an idiot.
sb is the tighty at 20/7/1.5

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>,

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

This looks good to me.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

we're pushing a (hopefully) 35% edge putting 25% of the money in, and killing our implied odds (plus the small chance we're up against a better flush draw sometimes) -- our pair outs are no good and we have no straight redraws or high card power -- i actually think given our relative position this is a tiny bit -ev. it's not terrible though obviously because usually we're the only flush draw and if we hit we win a big pot.

EDIT - i thought it was 3way and not 4way. that makes it closer but i still want to preserve our implied odds against bad laggy villains. when we go berserk like this then check the turn it basically says what we have and also then if a flush card comes bad laggy villains won't go wild with crap hands like they might have otherwise.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

the raise is for value pretty often with no one folding, but you sort of turn your hand face up, especially when you miss and check the turn. (your line looks like a monster, so you could bet the turn and pretend you have 22 or maybe JT, but this hand goes to showdown pretty often so it's not gonna work.)

of course, you're going to have a tricky decision if you just call and then hit -- do you donk? do you try to c/r mp1? so i guess just building a pot now while everyone is trapped is not such a bad thing.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
we're pushing a (hopefully) 35% edge putting 25% of the money in

[/ QUOTE ]

amirite?

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

Babar hit the nail on the hammer.

The worst part of this is that given the description of the villains, this play doesn't just slightly decrease our implied odds, but ruins them completely when villain is willing to put in tons of bets with JT/KJ/T2/22/etc.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

oh, my bad, i thought it was 3way and not 4way for some reason. i'll edit above.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Babar hit the nail with the hammer.

[/ QUOTE ]
/nit

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Babar hit the nail with the hammer.

[/ QUOTE ]
/nit

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate playing this card but...
&lt;--Loc.

Thanks anyways.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

Marcrons post is on

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Babar hit the foot with a piano.

[/ QUOTE ]
/nit

[/ QUOTE ]

FYP [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero ????

OK, so what's the plan now?

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

getting back on track...

Im not a fan of the play here unless I've got pair outs in which case I would rather raise flop.

Therefore I would just call/call (this may seem suspicious, but i prefer drawing that way here)

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

3b/call cap.

bet/call all non diamond, board pairing river.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero ????

OK, so what's the plan now?

[/ QUOTE ]
MP1 could have just AK here maybe even with a diamond, I would raise again &amp; if he caps i slow down.

Given ur flop line he may put u on a set, so if he caps there's a good chance we're still ahead.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero ????

OK, so what's the plan now?

[/ QUOTE ]

80/16 can't hold too many better flush combos that raised PF compared to sets, hands like QJ, AK, and even spewy overpairs. I'd 3 bet.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

3town

all i am worried about really given his play (on previous streets) at this point is ak diamonds for the royal [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img], or some kind of random higher flush like A8 diamonds or something.

however he's a superlag so i'm not really even really considering that yet. he can also reasonably hold overpairs with the diamond, the ak straight, or sets. or he could have total trash, or two pair, or something.

either way jam it now.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

Given the action you've already put in, villain probably didn't put you on a flush draw.

Villain is 83/16. The probability that he's a moron exceeds the chance he has a better flush.

I go to three-town.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

FACK!!

I swear, I get more pissed at myself for not winning enough on the hands I do win than I get at myself for losing more on the hands I should have lost less.

Thanks guys. I'm still a little gunshy when it comes to ramming and jamming on the turn and river.

I was thinking I should have 3 bet turn, but I kept seeing monsters under my bed, and in my closet, and in my underwear drawer, and in the pool, and in the bed of my truck and walking up my driveway....

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero ????

OK, so what's the plan now?

[/ QUOTE ]

This turn donk makes no sense to me unless you knew in advance you wanted to 3bet.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Full Tilt 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, SB calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 calls, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 caps</font>, MP2 calls, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises</font>, MP2 folds, Hero ????

OK, so what's the plan now?

[/ QUOTE ]

This turn donk makes no sense to me unless you knew in advance you wanted to 3bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I was more expecting 2 calls than 1 raise. Had it been 2 back to me, I would have had to make a tough decision.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Babar hit the nail with the hammer.

[/ QUOTE ]
/nit

[/ QUOTE ]

I hate playing this card but...
&lt;--Loc.

Thanks anyways.

[/ QUOTE ]

LOL YOUR MASCOT IS A TREE YOU ARE AN EXPERT ON CARPENTRY METAPHORS.

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
3b/call cap.

bet/call all non diamond, board pairing river.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling Xhad...

Re: spewmonkey?!? who you callin\' spewmonkey?
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
3b/call cap.

bet/call all non diamond, board pairing river.

[/ QUOTE ]

calling Xhad...

[/ QUOTE ]

Against an opponent this nutty and unpredictable it's not out of the question he caps with like the A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and a part of the board and then checks the river. Basically that rule is for opponents who are at least somewhat predictable and the proviso that opponent will reliably bet the river is a pretty big one. All that said I would still c/c river here without a more detailed read.