Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

I am a winning regular online player in $200NL (1/2) and $400NL (2/4).

When in Vegas I usually play the $1/2NL at MGM or Venetian and am familiar with the flavor of these games. The way I see them:
- Preflop raises are generally to $10-$15 and get 3-4 callers.
- cb is usually only 1/2 to 2/3 pot
- lots of fit or fold on the flop but typically at least one caller/floater/chaser.
- Players who call the flop and get heads-up usually also call turn.
- $1/2 stacks dont get particularly deep.
- turn & river raises from typical players frequently are for monsters.
- Locals to tourists ratio is 60/40 daytime/week and more touristy weekends & nights.
- 3-bet ranges preflop are usually a monster (except from short stack, any pair 66+ or AK AQ).

Next trip, I plan to move up to the $2/5NL. What differences should I expect? More locals? What's a typical preflop raise, how many typically call? How's their postflop play? What's typical CB success rate? How's 3-bet ranges? More bluff raises? etc.

I've read through the B&M forum with a "+Vegas +NL -Re" 1 year search. Lots of good discussion but didnt find anything dissecting this particular question.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

if you beat 200 & 400nl online these questions are not even worth answering. almost every player at your table will seem like they have just learned what hands beat what. play 5/10 live.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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if you beat 200 & 400nl online these questions are not even worth answering. almost every player at your table will seem like they have just learned what hands beat what. play 5/10 live.

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Agreed. You'll easily be the best player at 5-10 and should hold your own at 10-20

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

Are you guys serious? I don't consider myself a great player, just nicely +BB/100 online. Last time I played $1/$2NL at the Venetian, Greg Raymer was in the $5/10NL. No thanks.

Anyways I'm not bankrolled for a whole week of $5/10NL or higher live.

Uhh.. So what should I expect for $2/5NL anyways?

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

Its somewhat table dependent, but overall 2-5 plays slightly tighter than 1-2. somewhat more weak-tight, so you can sometimes bluff or semi-bluff more.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Uhh.. So what should I expect for $2/5NL anyways?

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Almost exactly the same, especially at places where 2/5 is the lowest they spread.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Are you guys serious? I don't consider myself a great player, just nicely +BB/100 online. Last time I played $1/$2NL at the Venetian, Greg Raymer was in the $5/10NL. No thanks.

Anyways I'm not bankrolled for a whole week of $5/10NL or higher live.

Uhh.. So what should I expect for $2/5NL anyways?

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Nobody can tell you, no matter what they think. I've been in 2/5 Vegas games with players that ranged from so-so, to above average, to super aggressive shark, to WPT final tabler.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Anyways I'm not bankrolled for a whole week of $5/10NL or higher live.

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if u beat the 400NL online it means u r properly rolled for it. if u r properly rolled for it then u should have no prob cashin some of the $ to try the 5/10 live for a couple of buy ins.
i.e. if u have 20 buy ins for 400NL online that's $8000. cash out $2000 for two buy ins @ 5/10 live (100BBs each). if that doesn't work out well then u can just play 2/5 and/or 1/2 for the rest of the week. if that doesn't work out well either then drop down to the 200NL and 100NL online and rebuild ur bankroll until u can try it again (this shouldn't take too long). so either u a liar about beatin the $2/$4 online or u too much of a nit w/ ur bankroll. that being said... yes, the 5/10 live is a hell of a lot easier than 1/2 and 2/4 online. although there could be the occasional shark at ur table it actually plays more like 50NL online.
good luck on ur trip.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

I see this question a lot and have also heard it being discussed on the flip side during live play(How a certain live player would do online). I don't have a whole lot of online experience, but I would say that the differences are significant and your ability to succeed in one medium vs the other really depends on the individual. Some can't beat either, some can beat both, and some can beat one but not the other at certain limits.
Also I don't believe the limits you play necessarily determine how hard or easy a certain game is.
I think you won't find that much difference in the locals/tourist ratio between 1/2 and 2/5. Depending on where you play they will play almost the same way. Just depends on the table you're at. Sometimes the game is super tight, sometimes You open raise for 30 someone reraises to 75 and the whole table calls behind. I don't know if in online games, there are specifics corrolated to limits with all these number categories that you quoted. But in live play you just have to sit down and see what the table is like because it varies so greatly.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

one thing i recommend if u r playin 2/5 is to play it in a casino where it is the smallest game available. that way the worst players will prolly be at those tables. if u go to a casino that also offers 1/2 all the newbies will be @ the 1/2 and not on the 2/5.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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one thing i recommend if u r playin 2/5 is to play it in a casino where it is the smallest game available.

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Yes. I just finished a trip to Vegas where this is the case (Rio mostly). The players ran the spectrum of styles, but they were consistenly bad. Locals are just as bad, just differently so. Games ranged from 6 limpers every pot, to $300 in the pot preflop every hand, depending on who was sitting down. If you're an observant player, and can beat 2/4 online, you'll be fine. Just adjust.

Some examples of the variety ...

Tourist guy plays his hands blind to any any pf raise or almost any bet post flop b/c he's only "playing for fun". Checks his cards if bet >50 or so. Calls down any piece of the flop. Raises huge on the river if he hits 2 pair+, folds if he misses, and calls with any piece. Makes every draw and people pay off his big raises on the river. Leaves +2000 after 90 minutes when a (horrible) local starts insulting him.

450 pound local calls any raise/reraise preflop, donk bets 1/3 pot oop, and folds to any pressure. Folds one hand face up (offsuit middle connectors on a KJ2 flop).

Nit smooth calls with AA in position pf and folds them face up to a 1/2 pot bet on K68 rainbow flop. He put me on exactly KK. Nope.

Tourists consistently call 3 barrels (or their entire stack, whichever comes first) holding 2nd pair no kicker. They're the ones who buy in for $100 and reload 6 times.

Guy buys in for $500, sits down and asks what a blind is. He wasn't being ironic. He limped every hand, called every pf raise, every flop bet, and folded every turn bet unless he had top pair+. He won a few pots because the lagtards insisted on bluffing with air, but he was felted after 40 minutes.

My point is that 30 minutes at a 2/5 table and you'll know who's who. A little patience and adjustment and you'll kill 2/5. Less than 10% of the players I sat with had any skill to worry about. I was able to avoid any big suckouts and was up 3K in 20 hours or so of play. Only one or two big pots.

Oh, and I play 2/4 online and am a very (very) slight winner.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

Darth - I agree with you 100%, but running well and not getting sucked out on does play a factor. I'm gonna be in Vegas Thur-Mon and am looking forward to picking on some tourists over the weekend. Apparently Labor Day weekend is the busiest of the summer. Then again, I guess I fall into the tourist category as well! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Are you guys serious? I don't consider myself a great player, just nicely +BB/100 online. Last time I played $1/$2NL at the Venetian, Greg Raymer was in the $5/10NL. No thanks.

Anyways I'm not bankrolled for a whole week of $5/10NL or higher live.

Uhh.. So what should I expect for $2/5NL anyways?

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Nobody can tell you, no matter what they think. I've been in 2/5 Vegas games with players that ranged from so-so, to above average, to super aggressive shark, to WPT final tabler.

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This seems the best answer. Just remember that there are always other 2/5 games going on and if you think you stumbled upon a strong table go find a better one.
And in contrast to some of the posts here, people (usually) dont just hand you their chips in the 2/5 games.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

[ QUOTE ]
Are you guys serious? I don't consider myself a great player, just nicely +BB/100 online. Last time I played $1/$2NL at the Venetian, Greg Raymer was in the $5/10NL. No thanks.

Anyways I'm not bankrolled for a whole week of $5/10NL or higher live.

Uhh.. So what should I expect for $2/5NL anyways?

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I was in that game, it wasn't that tough... if you beat 2/4nl online 5/10 is cake live "usually."

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Are you guys serious? I don't consider myself a great player, just nicely +BB/100 online. Last time I played $1/$2NL at the Venetian, Greg Raymer was in the $5/10NL. No thanks.

Anyways I'm not bankrolled for a whole week of $5/10NL or higher live.

Uhh.. So what should I expect for $2/5NL anyways?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nobody can tell you, no matter what they think. I've been in 2/5 Vegas games with players that ranged from so-so, to above average, to super aggressive shark, to WPT final tabler.

[/ QUOTE ]

This seems the best answer. Just remember that there are always other 2/5 games going on and if you think you stumbled upon a strong table go find a better one.
And in contrast to some of the posts here, people (usually) dont just hand you their chips in the 2/5 games.

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Couldn't agree more. Table draw is such a crap shoot. I've played 2/5 against braclet winners and local pros as well as rich old people who barely know if a flush beats a straight. I recommend playing in a large poker room (MGM, Ceasars, Bellagio, or Wynn) and switching tables if need be.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

move on up

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

Play where you feel comfortable. If you feel great at the 2-5 and the 5-10 looks soft then give it a buyin

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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i.e. if u have 20 buy ins for 400NL online that's $8000. cash out $2000 for two buy ins @ 5/10 live (100BBs each). if that doesn't work out well then u can just play 2/5 and/or 1/2 for the rest of the week. if that doesn't work out well either then drop down to the 200NL and 100NL online and rebuild ur bankroll until u can try it again (this shouldn't take too long). so either u a liar about beatin the $2/$4 online or u too much of a nit w/ ur bankroll.

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Or, he actually wants to take the advice of the thousands of players before him who advise using good bankroll management. Maroon.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

I'll be in Vegas this wknd as well and am beating 1/2 online as well (400 still a bit off in my future). I was planning on playing at the "B" this wknd as the 2/5 is the smallest game they spread.

Is anyone still using the "sup bro" at the tables?

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

Someone threw me a "sup bro" at the Venetian last December and even being a 2p2er for a few years, I had no idea what it meant. I have since learned of its use.

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Someone threw me a "sup bro" at the Venetian last December and even being a 2p2er for a few years, I had no idea what it meant. I have since learned of its use.

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What does it mean, and how do you use it?

Re: Live Vegas $1/2NL vs $2/5NL
 

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Someone threw me a "sup bro" at the Venetian last December and even being a 2p2er for a few years, I had no idea what it meant. I have since learned of its use.

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What does it mean, and how do you use it?

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Well it's a greeting to find out who are 2+2er's and you verbaly speak it [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] But it's really irrelevant nowadays as everyone reads 2+2. This site isn't a secret like some think it is or should be.