casino dilemma
 

at a local casino card room.
NLH 50/100 blinds $1/$2 full ring mixed playing styles mixed stack sizes, cash game.

my question is this.... does it seem a lil strange that the max buy in is only 50bb compared to a 100bb norm? also i have a strategy question. at this casino almost all the players at the 50/100 (small stack table) play for their stack almost every hand. making pot sized bets on every street. how would you try to control the action. how would you play this type of table?

im asking because yesterday i was playing at one of these 50/100 and i i sat down with 100 "everyone has me covered", im seating in at seat 3 at a semi aggressive table with a few nits and more meglo maniacs. i notes quick that almost all are playing big pots only and they play only abc. the guy to my right in seat 2 is a POW and VARY aggressive (willing to go all in calling and betting with nothing). after playing a few orbits picking up a few small pots from stealing the blinds and playing a nit post flop i loose half my stack with AAs(ill talk about that in a min). so i have about 45/50 doll left and its im in the BB. Table folds around to the SB"seat2" Player has <font color="white"> </font> J10off <font color="black"> </font> (his hand is in white to the left)he has me covered, and im holding q9 of demands. he bets 12 to go "almost a norm at this table. so i call in the BB flop comes 239 rainbow. he puts me all in. i call knowing he has nothing like always "he only over bets the pot on a semi bluff and a stone bluff" turn is a J and the river is a 10.


so i would like some input on this type of game if you don't mind.

"that hand that i lost with AAs"
i want to put this because it might give a better preview on how this table is going.
im in the im in the CO with AAs and i have less then everyone. there was a limp for the UTG so i raise to 15" a lil bit more the the opening norm" the table flds to the SB and he calls and the UTG calls. flop comes 10 7 4. SB donk bets pot and the UTG calls i call. pot gives puts my stack to pot almost even. turn brings a 5 "everything is rainbow. SB donks a $50 bet UtG raises to all in "more then i have and less then SB by about 6 dolls. i fold and SB calls. SB shows 710 and the UTG shows 68.

Re: casino dilemma
 

bump

Re: casino dilemma
 

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"that hand that i lost with AAs"


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Dream situation, played wrong. Everyone big stacked. Seeing AA in the first couple orbits of joining a game for 50BB. I go all-in preflop 100% the time in this situation. 6.5/10 times you will get called. You wont get called with 7T or 68 (well you might) but usually with smaller pairs and even KJ+ I have seen.

Later in the game with more chips I play different, but here I will either double up, win $3 or lose $100.

Re: casino dilemma
 

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does it seem a lil strange that the max buy in is only 50bb compared to a 100bb norm?


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No. 100 big blinds is common online now. However, some sites cap the buy-in at a higher level (e.g., Absolute), some less (e.g. True Poker). Party used to cap the buy-in at 50 BB.

In some live games, the cap is lower. $100 is a common cap for games with a $2 big blind. In others, the cap is extremely high, or there is no cap. You just need to adjust to whatever the game is. When stacks are deeper, you should tend to play hands that will have an information advantage in big pots, speculative hands. When stacks are shorter, you should aim for one big pair.

The lowest stake NL game available is always a gold mine.

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also i have a strategy question. at this casino almost all the players at the 50/100 (small stack table) play for their stack almost every hand. making pot sized bets on every street. how would you try to control the action. how would you play this type of table?

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Don't try to control the action. Don't spend chips to figure out where you are during the hand. Get your chips in with good cards (don't wait for AA), and profit far more than you would if your opponents were playing rationally.

Re: casino dilemma
 

If your looking for a low variance game, this isn't it. If you want a high profit game, listen to the advice from pzhon.

Re: casino dilemma
 

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No. 100 big blinds is common online now.

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Sorry, but I have to disagree. You are right that 100bb is common, but that doesn't mean that it is not a deep stack. When you buy in 100bb deep, you buy in full or deep. No matter how common. 20bb-50bb is short to mid stacked.

Re: casino dilemma
 

sorry but your wrong. a 100bb stack is mid not high. i dont want to pull text from any 2+2 book but if you read the PNLH book then you will see that it is considered a mid stack. + i like the advice from all of you it is looking like a high profit game but maybe not my place...i like a real game where i can play some "real poker" and everyone isent playing "donk push fest" it seems like its more of a gamble then anything else and we all know what happens over the long term with people that "gamble" and push aside reason and skill.

Re: casino dilemma
 

id love to see that text actually, if you can find it haha good luck. gsih page 136 "maybe play .10-.20 blind no limit with a $20 (large) stack." direct quote look that up. btw $20 at a .1/.2 table is 100bb

Re: casino dilemma
 

Strategy:

Tight/aggressive, ABC, no slowplaying, very little bluffing, value bet, overbet, big pairs and big cards need big pf action, straights, flushes and sets rule.

Have a few buy-ins as backup, variance will be high.

Re: casino dilemma
 

[ QUOTE ]
id love to see that text actually, if you can find it haha good luck. gsih page 136 "maybe play .10-.20 blind no limit with a $20 (large) stack." direct quote look that up. btw $20 at a .1/.2 table is 100bb

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page 37-39 ha thank you

Re: casino dilemma
 

[ QUOTE ]
Strategy:

Tight/aggressive, ABC, no slow playing, very little bluffing, value bet, over bet, big pairs and big cards need big pf action, straights, flushes and sets rule.

Have a few buy-ins as backup, variance will be high.

[/ QUOTE ]

in this type of game do you think long term will make or lose money? and is it going to be so small of a win or lose that i should even be playing in it?

Re: casino dilemma
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Strategy:

Tight/aggressive, ABC, no slow playing, very little bluffing, value bet, over bet, big pairs and big cards need big pf action, straights, flushes and sets rule.

Have a few buy-ins as backup, variance will be high.

[/ QUOTE ]

in this type of game do you think long term will make or lose money? and is it going to be so small of a win or lose that i should even be playing in it?

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You most certainly can make money from this table. Exploit their mistakes.

If they play too many hands, they generally have weak cards. So get in there with better cards and outkick them on top pair hands, get higher straights and get nut flushes.

If they overbet or are too aggressive, get in there with good cards and let them do the betting for you.

If they are ABC, then figure out what the ABC is and you can read them a lot better. Especially figure out how they play straight and flush draws as opposed to made hands.

When you get a premium hand, get all the chips in preflop if you can. If not, push a lot on flops you are happy with.

Your variance will be high so realize that a lot of the time you will be losing chips when you limp or call a light raise and then get out after the flop misses you or the action gets stupid. However, when do get past the flop, you stand to win a very big pot.

Remember the goal is to win money, so while you might only win one pot an hour, it will be a big one and the rest of the time you are looking for spots to go all the way but will be getting out of the way mostly (hopefully for as cheap as you can).

Lose the least you can when you are speculating and win the most you can when you are ahead.

Oh, and you're going to get more than a normal share of bad beats. If you can forget about the variance and the bad beats, you should have a grand ole time.

Re: casino dilemma
 

Actually, now that I think of this a bit more, perhaps tight/aggressive is not particularly the best style here.

You probably won't be able to buy many orphaned pots. And you probably also won't be able to muscle out some players.

So really, your play might resemble a cross between a rock and a fish. The rock portion will get you some cash when you play premium hands or top notch draws and hit flops. However, these guys probably won't recognize your rock play so you will get paid more than a typical rock against good players.

If you add to that a fish strategy of some loose passive play, that might work as well. However, you won't be a regular fish. You will play small pairs and unsuited and suited connectors cheap and then get out of pots that don't hit you hard. The other passive aspect is to check your draws. You don't want to be check-raised when you can get a free card in late position and you don't want to start a raising war if you're in early position.

Re: casino dilemma
 

that has to be the best advice i could get..wouldn't have thought that playing like a rock would be affective but i can see how it would. also the strategy you gave would appear to be appropriate for this type of game but i have a few more questions now, so if i use your strategy wile starting off at least, what should be my range...ie only AQ-AK off or suited and JJs or better? not including smaller pots where i would be playing small suited connected in late position or on the button for cheap(assuming i can find this spot)? and should i be looking to be the first one in the pot rather then a position strategy en tell i accumulate chips? i don't have much experience with these types of games thats why i ask. and other advice would be greatly appreciated. thanks

P.S. at what point if any would should i be thinking of switching styles? do you think it would make a difference if say i switched from a rock and loose passive to tight aggressive when i reach a 300+BB stack??

Re: casino dilemma
 

bump*

Re: casino dilemma
 

if you're not a serious postflop expert, don't go messing around with suited connectors or other speculative hands at this table. You'll CONSTANTLY be making weak made hands and tempting draws that can be really tricky to play with all the action going on.

Play tighter than you can stand. If the other players don't laugh when you raise (for the first time in 45 minutes), you're not playing tight enough.

It will be a joke the first time, and it will kill you to see your AKs pick up the blinds. But then 3 hands later, you'll get 3 callers and a raiser against your KK. If you have a small enough stack, you can raise all-in right then.

Read about short-stack-strategy. It will mop the floor with a loose aggressive table.

This kind of table can certainly be beat. Wait for good cards, bet them. Fold when the flop misses you, and (almost) never try to bluff. Takes a lot of patience. You might not win much at any given session, but you won't lose as much on your bad days as you win on good ones.

Re: casino dilemma
 

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if you're not a serious postflop expert, don't go messing around with suited connectors or other speculative hands at this table. You'll CONSTANTLY be making weak made hands and tempting draws that can be really tricky to play with all the action going on.

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Small pairs are speculative hands. Small pairs can certainly be profitable to a novice in loose games, if stacks are deep enough and if the preflop action isn't too wild.

Re: casino dilemma
 

[ QUOTE ]
Actually, now that I think of this a bit more, perhaps tight/aggressive is not particularly the best style here.

You probably won't be able to buy many orphaned pots. And you probably also won't be able to muscle out some players.

So really, your play might resemble a cross between a rock and a fish. The rock portion will get you some cash when you play premium hands or top notch draws and hit flops. However, these guys probably won't recognize your rock play so you will get paid more than a typical rock against good players.

If you add to that a fish strategy of some loose passive play, that might work as well. However, you won't be a regular fish. You will play small pairs and unsuited and suited connectors cheap and then get out of pots that don't hit you hard. The other passive aspect is to check your draws. You don't want to be check-raised when you can get a free card in late position and you don't want to start a raising war if you're in early position.

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Its so amazing when I read a post from pants every thing becomes so clear.

Thanks Pants

Re: casino dilemma
 

the advice is sound and i do like most of it but just to clarify... i am a sound post flop player. i can read these players like books but i am mostly conserened with strategy in this cash game rather then reading players. i also know how to play small pairs and from what position i should be beating and raising (by default) (not including and changes i make to hide my hands strangth). i appreciate the help, i really do, the only thing is that i am asking what you guys think should be my rang specifically starting out and when, if ever, should i switch my playing style (excluding the normal players at the "good player"/ only because there are only about 4 in the whole card room on these tables.

so far i gather that everyone can aggee that starting out i should be playing like a rock not tight/aggressive and maybe lose/passive correct. and everone also agress that this table can be profitable over the long term correct? so now if i can get just the rang that peopel think would be correct starting out and up to what point that would be great.

ps
YOU GUYS ARE GREAT THANKS FOR THE HELP!! really guys this web site is great and everyone is nice. i really enjoy everyones help. almost like everyone has everyones back no matter how obvious the answer is.lol