I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $1/$2 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $198.00
Hero (BB): $206.00
UTG: $335.75
MP: $290.30
CO: $241.70
BTN: $194.85

Reads: <font color="blue">Villain does open-limp</font>

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG folds, MP calls $2.00, CO calls $2.00, 2 folds, <font color="red">Hero raises to $9.00</font>, MP calls $7.00, CO folds

Flop: ($21) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, MP checks

Turn: ($21) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $15.00</font>, MP calls $15.00

River: ($51) A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $30.00</font>, MP folds
Uncalled bet of $30.00 returned to Hero

Pot Size: $51.00 ($2.55 Rake)

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

meh played okay. betting flop isn't bad either.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

love it all

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

i raise more preflop

betting the flop is bad imo, so wp

turn is good

i c/r river here sometimes, otherwise vbet is alright

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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love it all

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Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

im glad ppl arent as cbet happy as they used to be. nh

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

bet flop

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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bet flop

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no, don't

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Standard.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

I bet flop for pure value.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

this is such a typical "time to misapply a concept ssnl-nit stylie!" thread

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

only check that flop in position.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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only check that flop in position.

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Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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only check that flop in position.

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Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Bet flop against a thinking player. Wouldn't you always bet this flop with a big hand? If villain is a thinking player he can raise your turn lead knowing that you don't have a big hand.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

most likely guy has some small PP or suited connector. c-bet flop as normal. check/ and 1)if he checks behind turn, value bet river, 2) if he bets, lean toward calling and re-evaluating on river.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

We really don't need to bet this flop. I really thinking checking this flop &gt; betting this flop

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

I like this play more on a KJ6 board but this is still the standard way I'd play this hand, not a ton of value in betting but we'll get villain to bluff or v-bet a worse hand a lot.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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We really don't need to bet this flop. I really thinking checking this flop &gt; betting this flop

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Villain bets flop, we fold?

I'm part of the "check this flop in position" camp

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Out of curiousity: What other hands would you check this flop with? QQ? Are we ever checking this flop with anything but a marginal hand with good showdown value?

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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this is such a typical "time to misapply a concept ssnl-nit stylie!" thread

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i can't tell if you're just trolling or if there is something intelligent behind this statement. care to elaborate?

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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Bet flop against a thinking player. Wouldn't you always bet this flop with a big hand? If villain is a thinking player he can raise your turn lead knowing that you don't have a big hand.

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even a thinking player isn't doing this with 100% of his range at these stakes. if he is, hopefully you'd pick up on it when he does it two or three times.

its just as easy for a thinker to float you off your hand if you bet.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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Standard.

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Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

i bet the flop here

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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Out of curiousity: What other hands would you check this flop with? QQ? Are we ever checking this flop with anything but a marginal hand with good showdown value?

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how about air? its not a super great flop to cbet so i would sometimes check behind esp against weaker players that would play crap like KJ/KT/etc

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Why do everybody want to check the flop, I don't get it. He very seldom has a better hand, but he could very well have quite a few outs. Is it because you are afraid we will be c/r:ed, or that we don't have that great an equity edge when we are called?

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

for everyone who checks, do you fold when he bets 2/3 the pot?

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Those who are advocating a flop bet...can you expand on your reasoning why?

Is it a value bet? If so, are we expecting a call from 88/1010/Jx type hands? Arent we more likely to get a call from those hands on the turn/river if we check the flop?

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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Why do everybody want to check the flop, I don't get it. He very seldom has a better hand, but he could very well have quite a few outs. Is it because you are afraid we will be c/r:ed, or that we don't have that great an equity edge when we are called?

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because we have showdown value, and the last 2 things you said play a part but theyre also just reasons to try and get a cheaper showdown

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Oh.. I can see the check now.
I'm not sure it's the optimal play with my image though.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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Those who are advocating a flop bet...can you expand on your reasoning why?


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i think checking the flop is fine, but there are many reaons to bet it and i think betting &gt; checking here:

protecting your equity; you don't know what villains bluffing frequencies are.

you have a good hand, definitely ahead of his calling range on this flop. you want to get vaue from these in case scare cards hit.


this is a wet board plenty of draws, so value from those. (kind of the same as above, but want to emphasise that the fact that this board is wet means we should be more inclined to bet).



Advantages to checking: get value from bluffs (although that well could be a downside as we cant really call turn w/o a read)

keep the pot reasonable with our marginal hand.

makes us look weaker so we are more likely to get value out of the very marignal hands in villains range.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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im glad ppl arent as cbet happy as they used to be. nh

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Do you not think that cbetting a lot makes life difficult for villain? Not cbetting a lot seems to offer a lot of free cards, and makes it more obvious with top hands. Say a flop is 552. With most hands you would advocate checking, yet if you have AA you are making it very easy for people to get away easily if you would normally check.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

bet the flop. the board is pretty wet even without a flush draw.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Like a few others have said, some villains will call with atc here once, so I just go ahead and bet here against them. Against others, you should obviously check behind.

The only read you gave was that he open limps, which means he probably doesn't play well. Against basically an unknown, I bet the flop.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

Your "read" is pretty worthless IMO. I would also bet this flop. We do get value from worse hands and draws, wich we also protect against. Comeon, villain is unknown, he probably takes one of with a gutter even.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

i hate betting because if you get called you cant really put any more money into the pot...maybe one more street max. you're not going to c-bet the flop then c/c c/c are you? by checking the flop you keep the pot manageable and you don't have as many tough decisions later in the hand.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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We really don't need to bet this flop. I really thinking checking this flop &gt; betting this flop

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Villain bets flop, we fold?

I'm part of the "check this flop in position" camp

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villain bets flop, we call

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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i hate betting because if you get called you cant really put any more money into the pot...maybe one more street max. you're not going to c-bet the flop then c/c c/c are you? by checking the flop you keep the pot manageable and you don't have as many tough decisions later in the hand.

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making a hand play out easier should have absolutely 0 impact on your decision making process

and ppl asking why we are betting? are you serious?

we have like 8th nuts here and pair + gutshot makes up like 50% of his range

so... bet.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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making a hand play out easier should have absolutely 0 impact on your decision making process


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thats so not true...its obviously not the only factor but good players are good at least partly because they know how to avoid really tough decisions where it is easy to make a mistake.

Re: I didn\'t want to build a pot oop
 

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We really don't need to bet this flop. I really thinking checking this flop &gt; betting this flop

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Villain bets flop, we fold?

I'm part of the "check this flop in position" camp

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villain bets flop, we call

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What's the turn line then?