1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

I don't really have any interesting history with tan imo that would particularly influence this hand.

PokerStars Game #11688607877: Hold'em Limit ($100/$200) - 2007/08/25 - 17:45:12 (ET)
Table 'Lydia III' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bicyclekick ($2094 in chips)
Seat 2: Mr nOmadsen ($1489 in chips)
Seat 3: TanShuiWen ($4047 in chips)
Seat 4: yahii ($7876 in chips)
Seat 5: SicVinnyness ($3041 in chips)
Seat 6: Rodney King ($12645 in chips)
Rodney King: posts small blind $50
bicyclekick: posts big blind $100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to bicyclekick [7s 7d]
Mr nOmadsen: folds
TanShuiWen: raises $100 to $200
yahii: folds
SicVinnyness: folds
Rodney King: folds
bicyclekick: calls $100
*** FLOP *** [4s 9d 6h]
bicyclekick: checks
TanShuiWen: bets $100
bicyclekick: raises $100 to $200
TanShuiWen: calls $100
*** TURN *** [4s 9d 6h] [Qc]
bicyclekick: bets $200
TanShuiWen: calls $200
*** RIVER *** [4s 9d 6h Qc] [Td]
bk?

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

Check fold

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

Bet

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

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Bet

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Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

really?

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

Well its either check fold or bet fold I think......

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

i messed around with stove and if he is calling down with ace high its a bet.

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

I don't think he is, on this board. Also Victor, which Ace highs did you give him? I don't think he peels the turn with Ax unless x >=7

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

I think Dean's recommendation for BK to check with the intention to fold to a bet is the correct one vs me here.

Lately because of influence from Tongni I been folding ace highs more - so if I was playing against myself in this spot I check fold because:

1) If BK bets into on this board and given this action, I'm not calling ace high. BK is a player with a good reputation from 2+2 and more importantly (at least under the screenname BicycleKick) has not been a regular lately in the 1-2 games so I think he'll be playing more straightforward. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that his BB caling range vs 2-hole raise has a greater propensity to be a 'legit holding' compared to something like 57s - which is why I can't call ace high there because legit holdings that can check raise this flop is far more likely to have a pair than a draw (yes I can get creative and think of hands I may beat but pot's not exactly huge, I can give it up). If I do call, I have 77 beat. In fact, if I hit that river I'm raising.

2) For very similar reasons, if BK checks the river I won't bluff/value ace high. There's three categories of hands that can occur here. Optimistically BK can have a busted draw, so I'm not going to bother betting if checked to since he won't call a busted draw. BK can have A-x and thought his hand was good from the flop since the flop is broadway-safe, but then it would be hard for him to call down ace high here, so there's no reason to bet. Lastly, he can have a pair, which betting into is no good since he'll most likely call (at least, I would think so). So I won't bet if checked to if I can't at least beat bottom pair.

The most likely scenario in this hand goes:

1) If I hit the river and BK bets I raise, he loses 1-2 bets.

2) If I miss the river and BK bets I fold, he gains 0 bets.

3) If I hit the river and BK checks and I bet and he folds he loses 0 bets, if he calls he loses 1 bet.

4) If I miss the river and BK checks I will check behind, and BK wins/loses 0 bets.

Given all the permutations, I think check-folding is better. I know my assessment of TanShuiWen's thinking is accurate - because well, it's me.

Phew, this got kind of long. Don't mind me - I'm pretty tired after a long on-line and then Commerce session.

~andy

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

i know you say you are folding ace high more but if you played at all like you used to it's a crystal clear bet

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

Made some changes to my game recently, but sure, betting is fine too. I was just reasoning out my thinking process. ; )

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think Dean's recommendation for BK to check with the intention to fold to a bet is the correct one vs me here.

Lately because of influence from Tongni I been folding ace highs more - so if I was playing against myself in this spot I check fold because:

1) If BK bets into on this board and given this action, I'm not calling ace high. BK is a player with a good reputation from 2+2 and more importantly (at least under the screenname BicycleKick) has not been a regular lately in the 1-2 games so I think he'll be playing more straightforward. So I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt that his BB caling range vs 2-hole raise has a greater propensity to be a 'legit holding' compared to something like 57s - which is why I can't call ace high there because legit holdings that can check raise this flop is far more likely to have a pair than a draw (yes I can get creative and think of hands I may beat but pot's not exactly huge, I can give it up). If I do call, I have 77 beat. In fact, if I hit that river I'm raising.

2) For very similar reasons, if BK checks the river I won't bluff/value ace high. There's three categories of hands that can occur here. Optimistically BK can have a busted draw, so I'm not going to bother betting if checked to since he won't call a busted draw. BK can have A-x and thought his hand was good from the flop since the flop is broadway-safe, but then it would be hard for him to call down ace high here, so there's no reason to bet. Lastly, he can have a pair, which betting into is no good since he'll most likely call (at least, I would think so). So I won't bet if checked to if I can't at least beat bottom pair.

The most likely scenario in this hand goes:

1) If I hit the river and BK bets I raise, he loses 1-2 bets.

2) If I miss the river and BK bets I fold, he gains 0 bets.

3) If I hit the river and BK checks and I bet and he folds he loses 0 bets, if he calls he loses 1 bet.

4) If I miss the river and BK checks I will check behind, and BK wins/loses 0 bets.

Given all the permutations, I think check-folding is better. I know my assessment of TanShuiWen's thinking is accurate - because well, it's me.

Phew, this got kind of long. Don't mind me - I'm pretty tired after a long on-line and then Commerce session.

~andy

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By your thinking bk should also be c/f'ing 6x or 9x hands in addition to 77 and 88 b/c you won't bet a hand that's worse. OTOH if he's folidng this many hands, you should prolly be bluffing more often when he checks to you and then he should be calling more often to compensate.

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

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i messed around with stove and if he is calling down with ace high its a bet.

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no [censored]

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i messed around with stove and if he is calling down with ace high its a bet.

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no [censored]

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ya by a whole 2%. im sure you are brilliant enough to do the math in your head and differentiate small edges. foad.

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

I think that you bet the river although its very close decision. The value you get from him paying off with a smaller pocket pair or A6 (and maybe ak) just barely makes it worth while for me. If I do bet then I would definitely fold to a raise against this player.

I prefer the bet to check calling because almost any hand that he would valuebet with on the river will have you beat. Against a player that I am concerned might bluff raise me on the river with a hand like AK I would probably check call.

Good hand to discuss!

Shawn "Lightning" Keller

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

what does foad mean?

Re: 1/2 river vs tanshuiwen
 

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what does foad mean?

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censored off and die, i believe.