400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP2 ($396)
Hero ($506.30)
CO ($173.30)
Button ($211.30)
SB ($396)
BB ($385)
UTG ($392)
UTG+1 ($399.35)
MP1 ($383.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls $4, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $18</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Button calls $18, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: ($46) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $30</font>, Button calls $30.

Turn: ($106) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>


Villain is tag, but a hair passive really. Seems pretty obvious he has a pair here. Even tho, he's passive, I may induce a bet here or a river call. However, I hate giving free cards...even if it's only 2 outs. And, there can be plenty of overs to his 7s or whatever that scare him anyway.

Thoughts?

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

He's half stacked, and thus a donkey. Give him opportunity to think his 77 overpair is good.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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He's half stacked, and thus a donkey. Give him opportunity to think his 77 overpair is good.

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WE HAVE TO GET OUT OF THIS HALF STACKED MENTALITY!

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

If the shoe fits.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

It doesn't.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

Even if a half stack is a good player, great player, even, they still need to felt postflop lighter than deeper stacks.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

And the shoe does fit as a generalization.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

Why are we generalizing?

You play hands based off of individual reads

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

Point taken; however, that doesn't mean they're calling stations.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

We're generalizing because that's our purpose as reviewers and advisors. Only when we are given specific information do we disregard relevant generalizations.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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Villain is tag, but a hair passive really.


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Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

And yeah, a lot of them aren't stations, but most tend to felt lighter. Just not correctly.

An example of what I mean: A few days ago I went down to 25nl and played 65/60. One guy limp/3bet me. I pushed with K8s and he called with K9. He was correct to limp/3bet/call me, but incorrect with the hand he chose to do it.

The kind of thinking that provoked his actions is the same that generic midstackers use. They may not be conventional stations, but they still make more bad calls than non-stations.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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65/60

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but incorrect with the hand he chose to do it.

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K9o

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Meh

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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Villain is tag, but a hair passive really.


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This is specification that leads to a broad generality. A lot of TAGs will sometimes put hero on AK or something. If the specification had something to do with villian not felting without the nuts to standard aggression or something then we'd be dealing with much more.

Also, hero's image and flow of the game and villian's percieved skill level are not specified. Facets of those can make any certain play most +EV.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

They are much better read than truly generalizing about how a player plays b/c of stack size IMO.

Anyway, I think hero should value town on the turn

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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Villain is tag, but a hair passive really.


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This is specification that leads to a broad generality. A lot of TAGs will sometimes put hero on AK or something. If the specification had something to do with villian not felting without the nuts to standard aggression or something then we'd be dealing with much more.

Also, hero's image and flow of the game and villian's percieved skill level are not specified. Facets of those can make any certain play most +EV.

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Wow. I can't wait to see a hand you post!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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Anyway, I think hero should value town on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]I don't think so. If hero value towns it, he's not getting value out of a tag because he dumps everything but QQ+ and maybe JJ. Checking has much more value than a bet.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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He's half stacked, and thus a donkey.

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Isn't it also possible that he has lost some of his stack recently and has not reloaded? Also, there are reasons a good player might buy in at this level.

In any case, I would think the read OP gave might be more reliable than your generalization based on his stack size.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

As Qtip indicated, so many cards will kill action (or put you behind) on the river there won't be a whole lot of value there IMO.

Hearts, overs to whatever pair he might have, etc.

It may well be marginal either way against 7's or such.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

I think its an easy check. Like you said, you're only really afraid of a 2 outer, if it hits, it hits, oh well. Check and hope he puts more money in at some put with a value bet on the river.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

Im not giving card here. And im willing to play for my stack with this board if he wants to represent 5.

Since u dont have the Ah he could esily be on a A high fd.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

Gruching

I like a bet of around $40. 77 may find the urge to peel (with 2 outs) or bluff raise your obvious weakness.

Re: 400: AA Considering Turn Check
 

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Villain is tag, but a hair passive really.


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This is specification that leads to a broad generality. A lot of TAGs will sometimes put hero on AK or something. If the specification had something to do with villian not felting without the nuts to standard aggression or something then we'd be dealing with much more.

Also, hero's image and flow of the game and villian's percieved skill level are not specified. Facets of those can make any certain play most +EV.

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Wow. I can't wait to see a hand you post!

[img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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Most hands I post deal with generalities, actually.