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Moozh 08-24-2007 04:21 AM

A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
I have been trying to teach a few of my friends the nuances of being a winning poker player. Over the summer we played once a week (where I would try to actively instruct them) and I think they are now ready for their first trip to the casino, which is happening this weekend. None of them have been to the casino before, so this week I've been preparing them for what to expect. Also, since I've taught them all to play a solid TAG game, they do not have experience playing against the large number of poor players you will find at the casino.

So, as the final step in their preparation, I want to write up a good list of what they need to know. I looked over the official thread on this topic, but its tone seemed to imply that if you make any mistake at all you're a mentally retarded douchebag, which is just silly. It also does nothing to address B&M specific poker strategy, which I wanted to cover as well. I post it here for comments because while I know a decent amount about poker, my experience is mostly online and thus I could use some help with the casino specific strategies.

<font color="purple">Casino Procedures</font>

After the god-forsaken drive through urban LA or the rural Indian Reservation, you've finally made it to the casino! You park the car and finger the large wad of cash in your pocket as the world transforms from the dull grey of night to the neon sunlight of what is to be your personal hunting grounds for the next several hours. There's a special something in the air (most likely the extra oxygen being pumped in) that lets you know that it's going to be a special night for you and your bankroll. You're itching to play, but it's not so clear how to get started...
<ul type="square"> [*]The first step to playing poker is to actually find the poker room! It's not as easy as it may seem, poker rooms are always hidden in some back corner of every casino ever built (this naturally doesn't apply to cardrooms). Some casinos have signs! Otherwise, just keep going back until you've reached the kitchens, then you've gone too far.
[*]Once you've found the poker room, your goal is to get seated at a table. Surprisingly, this is not accomplished by seating yourself at a table. At most every cardroom, there is a main desk (not always near the front) where you will put your name on a list. Nowadays, most large rooms have big electronic displays of the waiting lists for each game. Walk up to the desk and tell them which game you want to play, including the game type and the limit. For NL Hold'em, the limit is described by the size of the blinds, not the buyin amount. After you tell them your game of choice, they will ask for your name (give it to them, or make a better one up).
[*] This next part will vary. At most places, you should expect to wait for a seat. Eventually, your name will be called. Check in with the main desk and they will tell you which table you have been assigned to. Now, you need to get to your seat and buy chips, not necessarily in that order. If you do not know, ask the main desk. Some casinos have you buy in yourself at the cage. Others prefer you to go to the table first and buy in there. Either way, you will eventually find your table (after one or two wrong guesses). You are allowed to take any open seat. I recommend taking the seat farthest from the fat smelly guy, but others prefer to prioritize differently by enduring the fat smelly guy if on the other side is a not horribly disfigured girl with a decent face (but she plays poker!). If you have not bought in at the cage, buy in now by telling the dealer how much you want and placing your money on the table.
[/list]You've finally managed to go through all the damned rigamarole and now have your seat at the table. Your giddy optimism has been gradually washed away by the slight haze of cigarette smoke and intermixing scents of cheap perfume, but you smile inside as you realize the rest of the table has been unknowingly placed in the path of a ten engine frieght train. As you try to count the number of teeth of the old man across from you (you conclude he has at least seven), the dealer says "Sir, would you like to post?"...

<ul type="square">[*]As you may be aware, the blinds are a rotating forced ante all players must pay. A player's blinds pay for his or her cards for a full orbit of play. When entering a game outside of the blinds you stand to be dealt a number of hands without having to pay for them up front. Since this can be considered unfair, most casinos ask you to 'post' a big blind when you first start. If you do not want to post the blind, you may wait until the actual big blind has come around to you and start your game there. Posting is a personal decision, but I find it reasonable to post if you're coming in near the button, and to wait if you're a few hands away from the blinds. It may be good to know that you cannot come in on the button this way (you must wait until you are in the cutoff), but that is rarely an issue. Also, some casinos do not ask you to post, so don't post until they ask.[/list]You decide to post. After all, you'll be winning it back in no time. It's time to lay the hurt on. The cards come around and you are dealt Q9, both hearts. The first player, a middle aged dour looking man, limps in. The next player, a young asian kid with hip sunglasses and an iPod, limps in after him. A couple of folds and a crusty old man raises. You blink and check yourself, you had not even noticed the old guy, this was the first time he had physically moved since you arrived at the table. Action is on you and you think about rehizzling, but you decide it's better to suck the players in for more money post-flop and cold-call the raise. Everyone else folds and both limpers call. The dealer collects the money and lays out the flop. You see the beautiful K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], giving you a gutshot and a backdoor flush draw, a nearly insurmountable hand. There's no need to slowplay this monster anymore, it's time to go to valuetown! Dour Guy and Asian Hipster check and Crusty bets two thirds of the pot. His eyes seem alive for the first time tonight. You are slightly concerned about what long term effects this hand will have on the poor man's health as you go to raise...

<ul type="square">[*]On small actions, it is not always necessary to clearly define your decision. Calling bets and folding hands is very obvious for all to see (make sure you push your folded hand to the middle of the table though). When it comes to raising, things can get trickier than you may expect. Thus, when making a raise (or opening bet post-flop), it is best to verbally declare your action before making any phsycial move with your chips. Do this by announcing 'raise' clearly so the dealer can hear you, then by announcing the amount of the bet/raise. This will avoid confusion and keep the game moving smoothly. Remember, verbal declarations are binding actions, so make sure you mean what you say. After you announce your amount, count your chips without rushing by creating a single stack of five or ten chips and then making new stacks by matching the height of the original one. As your verbal action was binding, the dealer is able to help you count out your chips, so if you are having trouble it is ok to ask the dealer for help.[/list]Not wanting to scare away the old man, you raise the minimum by doubling his original bet. The old man's eye's widen slightly and he blinks a few times. It's no wonder, you think, this is probably the first time in his extremely prolific life that he has ever encountered a player of such skill and vision. After a couple of seconds, the old man gruffly says 'call' and matches your bet. He is now sporting a pronounced frown on his face. You're just trying hard not to burst out in a grin. The turn brings the K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], your path to ascendency has been assured. The old man has a coughing fit and almost dies. It's annoying, old players always slow the game down. The old man stops coughing long enough to check. You feign weakness and bet a quarter of the pot hoping he will come over the top. Naturally the old guy falls perfectly into your trap and raises, leaving him a pot sized bet left in his stack. You have a tough decision to make, put him in now, or wait for the river, you need some time to think it over...
<ul type="square">[*]Sometimes, the flow of the game will become too fast (ok, very rarely) and you will need some extra time to think over a big decision. If it's your turn and you know you need extra time, look at the dealer and say 'time'. This will let the dealer know you are going to take a little longer, and he will wait and only prompt you when it is truly time for you to stop thinking and make a decision. Do not let yourself feel rushed when it is your turn to act, take the time you need to make the correct decision.[/list]You decide to trap the old man again by just calling. The dealer turns over the inevitable T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. You'd act surprsied, but you aren't. As planned, the old man announces 'all-in'. You think about Hollywooding, but you're not a douchebag so you call quickly. The old man says "I think you've got me" with a twinkle in his eye. 'Of course I do', you think to yourself as you go to throw your cards in. As you do, you look over and see the old man is still holding his cards face down, looking at you with a queer smile on his face...

<ul type="square">[*]<u>DO NOT</u> throw your cards away until you have been physically awarded the money in the pot. Once you toss your cards your hand is considered forfeit and you no longer have any claim to the pot. To win the pot at showdown, you must turn over both cards. Do not let anyone take your cards until you get the money! A good rule of thumb is to keep it simple. It is tempting to take the initiative and try and determine the winner yourself. Save yourself the trouble and turn your hand up and wait. It is the dealer's job to award the pot to the correct player. This will avoid confusion and make things easier for all parties.[/list]You pull your cards back in time to see the old man turn over two kings. Doing the math in your head, you figure that this gives him four kings, which would be a good hand against any other player. The table oohs and aahs in appreciation and the dealer moves to push the old man the copious pot. You just smile and turn your hand over. At first no one notices, but soon a huge commotion has enveloped the table and the surrounding area. The old man has just won the bad beat jackpot! The dealer pushes you the pot and looks at you expectantly...
<ul type="square">[*]After winning a hand, it is customary to tip the dealer $1. Do this after the dealer has given you the pot, usually when he takes your cards. The dealer should verbally thank you, and will tap the chip on the table to signify to the floor that the chip was given to the dealer as a tip. You do not need to tip the dealer for very small pots, such as when you raise and win the blinds. It is not uncommon for people to tip more than $1 when they win larger pots. You are under no obligation to do so, $1 is easily sufficient for any sized pot. Tip more if you feel like it, you'll make a new friend for sure.[/list]The old man is the hero of the hour. The bad beat jackpot just paid him $43,000. He is surrounded by the hordes, some giving him congratulations, some asking to 'borrow' money. You sit alone at your table dejected. 'Some people get all the luck' you think as you pack up to leave. There's no way you can continue playing in such a sour mood. It's so frustrating when such a crappy player like that gets such miracle cards while a true pro like yourself never catches any breaks. You comfort yourself with the knowledge that in the long run, skilled play will always prevail over such lucksacks as that crusty old man. Your mood ruined, you cash out and walk dejectedly out to the parking lot. As you walk out into a light drizzle your mood improves slightly. After all, there's always tomorrow.

<font color="purple">Casino Strategies</font>

These are strategies which are more specific to casino settings. Some have to do with being in extremely loose/passive games and thus are not exclusive to B&amp;M settings, but the tips still apply. I can't verify the accuracy of any of these, nor the completeness of the list. Please feel free to improve upon it if you so like.

<ul type="square">[*]The first and most important tip is to have fun! People come to the casino for multiple reasons. Some are serious players and want to win money. Others are recreational gamblers just looking for a chance to hit it big. Usually it is the second group that donates to the first. Thus, if you are there to win money, it is in your best interest to keep the donators happy. Do this by giving them the environment they want. Be friendly and jovial, small talk is encouraged. If poker strategy comes up, just use phrases like: "My brothers friend won a lot of money playing a few weeks ago so I figured I'd come and give it a shot too", or "QQ is so overrated, an A or K comes out 80% of the time so you always lose", or my favorite "everyone always plays high cards, so I play the low cards and get them all to myself". Keep up the image of a recreational gambler while you do your best to dominate the table.
[*]Take some time and watch the players at your table. There are three basic tendencies I find most important to watch at a low-limit live table.

1) Who limps a lot. Limping in too much is the largest sign of a donator. A secondary (and often more glaring) sign is how often they call raises preflop. Find the people at your table who play too many hands preflop and target them.

2) Who raises a lot. This is more difficult. Good players can raise a lot, but often you will encounter action players who like to play for large pots. If you are new and not playing on a comfortable bankroll, these players can take you out of your comfort zone. If that is the case, it may be best to avoid them by simply folding to them preflop more often. But, if you have seen them raising with hands such at A7o and K9o, you can begin to target these players as well. Be prepared for the higher variance that will come with the higher win rate though.

3) Who calls a lot. Even more profitable than players who call too much preflop are players who call too much post-flop. The farther in a hand one goes, the larger the bets become. Thus, you must find the players who call down after the flop too much. These guys are your bread and butter (which we will discuss a bit later). This may be a bit tough because often they will lose their money so fast, you will not have an opportunity to take advantage of them.
[*]Adjust your hand ranges. Live tables play very loose and often very passive. This allows you certain options that aren't available in tighter and more aggressive games. First, open-limping with solid speculative hands (suited connectors and small pairs) becomes profitable. Also, if you are in late position with several limpers to you, you can limp behind with a huge range of hands: suited 1-gappers, suited aces, even some suited kings (just make sure you don't put too much value in a flopped pair of kings in this case).

If the table is loose, high card hands lose a lot of value out of position. Where before you may have open raised early with hands like KQo, now you put yourself in a tough position, playing a bloated pot out of position against players with enormous hand ranges. While you should still be raising in late position, it is often acceptable to limp in early with hands like AJo and KQo for pot control. (Although this whole point is debatable I'm sure).
[*]Match the table dynamics. Once again, you don't want to single yourself out as a mathematical pokulator at a table of recreational players. So, when accepatable, match your play to that of the table's. For example, in a 1/2 blind game, is it customary to open raise to 7 or 8. At the casino, I usually switch to 10, as this has been the standard opening raise where I play and it looks more natural throwing in two red chips than counting out a red and a few whites. Also, note that a larger intiial raise size helps a tighter player.
[*]Don't play scared. For new players, it is often an intimidating experience the first time you go to a casino. One way this is manifested is by players playing it safe by betting and raising smaller than they should, or often by not betting at all. Do not make the mistake of playing to win pots and not lose money. A true poker player plays to maximize their expectation. Thus, a missed value bet is as large of a mistake as a bad call for the same amount (possibly even more if the call had a small amount of equity). Which brings us to:
[*]Value Bet! In a loose/passive game, your main profits are made from bad players calling your bets with worse hands. This gives you enormous control over your results. Remember the player who calls too much post-flop? You must single out these people over any others as they will be responsible for the vast majority of your winnings. Once you find these people, bet large and bet often. Since you control how much you bet, you control how much money you get! Don't be scared, bet as much as you think they will be willing to call. Play to maximize your profits. Yes, it can be scary out of position with AQ on a AJ649 board, but force yourself to put a solid bet out on the river, you'll be amazed at what they will call with. Which brings up another important point...
[*]When first learning poker strategy, new players are usually taught the basic ideas behind preflop play and then simple flop play ideas. This is because these areas offer the largest opportunities for quick improvement (and are also a required foundation for later street play). What is often lost is that, especially in no-limit, turn and river play is absolutely crucial for one's success. In a game where the bets effectively double each round, a single river bet may be as large as all the other bets combined. Thus, missing out on a solid river value bet can be a huge mistake. So, although it may be scary, suck it up and make those bets. Your bankroll will thank you.
[*]Anticipate bad beats. When first learning and playing with friends who play similarly, bad beats will be a fairly rare occurance. This is because by definition, a bad beat occurs when one gets their money in way behind and hits a miracle card to suck out. When playing with other solid players, it is much more rare for a player to put in a solid amount of money while way behind. Thus, the opportunities for bad beats to occur are far less. Converesly, a loose passive casino game is a breeding ground for suckouts. Playing with people who take their hands too far too often will inevitably lead to a significant number of suckouts. To a new player with a small bankroll, this can be extremely defeating. There is no easy cure for this other than to realize that in order for someone to suck out on you, you must have outplayed them and should have plenty of other opportunities to make the money back in the near future. Do not let yourself get frustrated, just keep playing your game.[/list]Ok, that's all I have for now. It turned out to be much more than I originally planned on anyway. As always, any comments are appreciated, I don't claim to be the end all authority on any of this. Hopefully though, this will be a good guide for knowlidgable players making their first trip to a casino.

Luckyspikes 08-24-2007 06:41 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Great job ! Post bookmarked [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

thesilkworm 08-24-2007 07:10 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Very informative for the newbies. For those of us who knew all this stuff anyway, it is worth reading for the funny parts. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

Bossman9 08-24-2007 09:32 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Great post !
Thanks for taking the time....

resboard 08-24-2007 09:48 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Something i think should be in there since this is for newbies probably starting at 1/2 is that the Standard Preflop raise is rather large. In the 1/2 games i have played in in Atlantic City the standard raise seems to be $12-$15 preflop with is 6x-7.5x the BB. New players should be aware of this. Also, I think people should try to buy in for the max if they can afford it.

thesilkworm 08-24-2007 11:10 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
in Atlantic City the standard raise seems to be $12-$15 preflop with is 6x-7.5x the BB. New players should be aware of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most games in Vegas play like this too.

whorasaurus 08-24-2007 11:15 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
A+++++

Icarus152 08-24-2007 11:41 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Heading to vegas next week as a newbie B+M player so will def. keep all your suggestions in mind.Many thanks

*TT* 08-24-2007 02:19 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Moozh - The SSNL and Full Ring forums both linked this thread in their forum stickies - congrats! I will do the same here in B&amp;M, great post - I hope others have something to add to this thread, adjusting to various B&amp;M textures is an important skill to learn.

zeuhl 08-24-2007 02:44 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
A very relevant (and funny) post indeed. The "Casino Strategies" bit is pretty much exactly how I play in small stakes B&amp;M games. I'm probably breakeven overall now in them, but would probably be ahead by quite a lot if I had known and followed these recommendations from the start. The three last paragraphs are really the key differences between small stakes online and small stakes B&amp;M in my experience.

DeuceKicker 08-24-2007 02:47 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
A few quick points.

When raising, don't say, "I call and raise to X." That's something you only used to see in the old Bret Maverick movies, but I've heard people say that three times in the past couple of months. If you want to raise, "Raise" should probably be the first word out of your mouth.

When putting your name on the board, it's perfectly acceptable to put yourself on more than one list at a time. (My first time playing I didn't think you were allowed to bogart the 1-2, 2-4 and 3-6 lists at the same time)

Ask if there's a Bad Beat Jackpot for your game, and if so, what qualifies. Realize that other players will adjust their play wildly if they think they have a "jackpot hand."

Be consistent about chopping. If it folds around to the blinds, you don't get to chop when you have 72 and raise when you have AA. You don't get to chop from the BB against the SB who is a horrible player, and not chop when you're SB against the BB who is tough. It's OK to say, "I don't chop if it gets to five-handed, but I'll chop six-handed or more." Just be consistent. Not much pisses off B&amp;M regulars more than some young punk coming in and selectively chopping against them and their friends.

The first and foremost rule should be Never, ever, ever, never berate another player. It doesn't matter if he caught three two-outers against you in a row. If you can't muster up an almost-genuine-sounding, "Nice hand," just don't say anything.

DrMega 08-24-2007 04:51 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Nice work! Good advice and entertaining to boot. I wish I'd had this to read before my first B&amp;M misadventures.

Rottersod 08-24-2007 05:09 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
Ask if there's a Bad Beat Jackpot for your game, and if so, what qualifies. Realize that other players will adjust their play wildly if they think they have a "jackpot hand."

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this and whenever I go to a cardroom I always ask since they vary so much even in the same city. There's nothing worse then getting involved in a hand and then having to ask.

Also, OP, at least in LA BBJ pay around 25% to the hand winner so the guy in your (very funny) story would have walked way with some significant cash.

ChromePony 08-26-2007 04:28 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Hey all, thanks for the positive feedback, it's much appreciated.

Heh, I realized that normally our 'down on his luck hero' would have normally taken a good 25% chunk of the BBJ, but that doesn't really fit the story. Too bad for him.

That said, our group went to the casino this Friday night. Overall they did well. A few large winners, a few small losers, so the group was significantly up overall. The trip also gave me a chance to see what important things I had forgot to mention in the original post. A few things come to mind.

<ul type="square">[*]If you're used to online play, live play is going to seem very slow. If it's your first time in a casino, things will be scary and exciting when you're in a hand, but be prepared for a long wait when you're not in a hand. Live play can run less than half the speed of online. This is where I take advantage of the extra time and try to be talkative. It helps get through those long periods between hands, and it helps your image too!
[*]I find casino play much more passive in general. This is extremely pronounced on the turn and river. It is not uncommon for people to check behind or call behind on the river with very strong hands. Thus, if you get raised by a tighter player on the turn or river, you need to seriously consider folding.
[*]As an online player, you may be used to semi-bluffing and playing your draws aggressively. This is pointless at a casino because you have so little folding equity. You don't need to raise your draws in position unless you think you have positive pot equity. But, because of the before-mentioned passivity on the turn and river, it is very easy to get a free river card, even out of position! You can bet the flop into people and then check the turn when called. Often it will be checked around for you.
[*]Also relating to the passivity issue, check/raising is very rare. Passive players don't check/raise and good players can't check/raise because passive players don't bet.
[*]A little image goes a long way. It's ok to start out a little overaggressive. If you mess around a bit early, a lot of people will start thinking of you as 'that crazy guy' at the other end of the table. Tighten up after your first few orbits and the image will stay.
[*]Don't be disappointed with a -1/2 buyin day. It's possible to sit for several hours and simply not have any opportunities due to the slow nature of the game.
[*]Because you often will only have a handful of opportunities over the course of the night, you have to take advantage of them. Unfortunately, if you suffer a bad beat during one of them, it can pretty much cripple your chances of having a solid night. You have to accept that.
[*]Don't come to the casino with any monetary goal in mind. Some of my friends came hoping they could double up. When you start thinking about the magnitude of your success, your decision making process fixates on the wrong priorities. Come to play, have fun, and make good decisions.
[*]I have two preferred methods for stacking chips. If you're new and find yourself thinking about ups and downs too much, immediately stack your chips in 7 or 9 uneven stacks. This keeps you from knowing exactly how much is in front of you and will let you focus on the game as you won't be able to monitor your financial progress as much. The downside of this method is that sometimes you need to know exactly how much you have, and sometimes it helps to have prestacked piles so you can just move one or two of them in quickly without having to count them out. Keep even piles of 10 or 20 chips only if you're able to ignore your wins and losses over the course of the night.[/list]Ok, a few more. Hope they help again. Feel free to keep adding your own too. Thanks.

Moozh 08-26-2007 04:32 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Bah, that was me above, brother's account.

FISHOUTTAWATER 08-27-2007 01:43 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Great post, I hope all the kiddies who come to the club their first time read it, it would help the game move alot faster and make their experience more enjoyable

1C5 08-28-2007 09:30 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
After winning a hand, it is customary to tip the dealer $1. Do this after the dealer has given you the pot, usually when he takes your cards. The dealer should verbally thank you, and will tap the chip on the table to signify to the floor that the chip was given to the dealer as a tip. You do not need to tip the dealer for very small pots, such as when you raise and win the blinds. It is not uncommon for people to tip more than $1 when they win larger pots. You are under no obligation to do so, $1 is easily sufficient for any sized pot. Tip more if you feel like it, you'll make a new friend for sure.



Is this true? Most of the regs tipped like $1 every pot but many others tipped $3-$5 or more on bigger pots.

AKQJ10 08-28-2007 10:48 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is this true? Most of the regs tipped like $1 every pot but many others tipped $3-$5 or more on bigger pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Conspicuous consumption. You have no need to follow suit, unless you want to be known as "that guy who tips $5 on every $80 pot".

realjaydub 08-28-2007 11:23 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Cool post.

jjshabado 08-28-2007 11:59 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
[*]A little image goes a long way. It's ok to start out a little overaggressive. If you mess around a bit early, a lot of people will start thinking of you as 'that crazy guy' at the other end of the table. Tighten up after your first few orbits and the image will stay.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I agree with this. I think you generally want to be seen as tight. You've basically got two types of players at the table (this is clearly a generalization):

1. Loose, [censored], oblivious players
2. Thinking opponents. These might be good or bad, but generally tighter than the players above. Often the players that pay attention are actually weak-tight (they know playing 'loose' is bad and pride themselves on making good folds).

So your image is meaningless against 1. They don't pay attention, and play mostly their cards. You could fold for 2 hours and they'll still call your big bet. Against these players, playing more aggressively then you think is best is just a waste of money. They'll pay you off all night long regardless of how you've been playing.

Against the number two type you probably want to be seen as tight. It lets you more easily isolate the really weak and profitable players. Also if you find yourself only against the weak-tight players you can steal pretty easily if you've built up a nice tight image.

Gonso 08-29-2007 12:42 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
Is this true? Most of the regs tipped like $1 every pot but many others tipped $3-$5 or more on bigger pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

For low limit games, $1 per normal pot is typical unless the pot is very small where it's not really standard to tip. For medium to monster pots, some players stay at $1 while others tip a little more porportionately.

For example, had a recent 4 buy-in pot at a 2/5NL game, guy takes down 2k and tips $25, which is a very good toke. But I've been tipped $10 here, sometimes $5, others $2, some guys still give $1 no matter what. Then the guys who forget you entirely lol.

The $5 for $80 pots though, while certainly appreciated, is a bit much. $2 is considered a decent toke in that spot in most places. I think he meant bigger pots, $80 isn't unusual for 1/2 at all.

Richter 08-29-2007 02:08 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
nice post. I wonder if I know you... Im a regular at Sandia

Assani Fisher 08-30-2007 04:58 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]


1) Limping in too much is the largest sign of a donator.


[/ QUOTE ]

Could not disagree more. In passive games, a good player will want to see a ton of flops. Against ultra weak opponents, I'll play any 2 100% of the time in MP/LP. Your post flop skill advantage more than makes up for it.

Obviously in tougher games, you don't want to be limping a ton.

jjshabado 08-30-2007 05:23 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


1) Limping in too much is the largest sign of a donator.


[/ QUOTE ]

Could not disagree more. In passive games, a good player will want to see a ton of flops. Against ultra weak opponents, I'll play any 2 100% of the time in MP/LP. Your post flop skill advantage more than makes up for it.

Obviously in tougher games, you don't want to be limping a ton.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, imo the largest sign of a donator is calling off a lot of money with middle pair, or top pair weak kicker. Thats the number one thing I look for when I'm getting to know my opponents. Once I see it happen I put a mental checkmark next to them and their opponent. Its likely one of them sucks (and its likely the caller, but sometimes the caller is decent and is just reacting to a loose bettor).

rockstar626 09-01-2007 12:56 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Printed Post. Will take this with me to AC this week to read on the 6 hr ride up,LOL. Great Post.

Felix_Nietzsche 09-03-2007 12:07 PM

Beware the Mini-Re Raise
 
Beware the mini-Re Raise in B&amp;M 1/2 NLHE games.
I've seen many players in 1/2 NLHE games make mini-re-raises with their AA/KK in these B&amp;M cash games. The counter strategy is simply to SILENTLY thank them and smooth call with your QQ using the strategy...no set/no bet. If you get a flop of AQx or KQx.....turn your radar on to detect a possible set over set....

enzed 09-03-2007 08:08 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Thanks for this thread, I haven't played live yet. You answer a lot of the questions I thought would be too basic to ask, much appreciated. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

philfan05 09-04-2007 11:05 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
Another thing to note is that in Vegas, cash on the table plays. I once saw a newbie go into his pocket and pullout roughly 1k in cash and bought in for $500(this was at the Wynn which has an uncapped buy in). He set the rest of the cash on the table haphazardly while he waited for his chips. He then began taking his chips out of the rack and stacking them. There was then a big fuss made as to if the cash played because he had it on the table as a hand was being dealt. The guy was totally clueless, as it was his first time playing and only wanted to be in for $500.

jjshabado 09-04-2007 11:27 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
Another thing to note is that in Vegas, cash on the table plays. I once saw a newbie go into his pocket and pullout roughly 1k in cash and bought in for $500(this was at the Wynn which has an uncapped buy in). He set the rest of the cash on the table haphazardly while he waited for his chips. He then began taking his chips out of the rack and stacking them. There was then a big fuss made as to if the cash played because he had it on the table as a hand was being dealt. The guy was totally clueless, as it was his first time playing and only wanted to be in for $500.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here's another tip for newbies, don't be one of these [censored] that wants to enforce a rule just for the sake of enforcing the rule.

Moozh 09-06-2007 01:14 AM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
More great points guys. In retrospect, I agree that I overemphasized preflop limping as an evaluator. Although I did point it out, the wording is poor: postflop callers are much much more profitable than otherwise loose preflop callers.

As for tipping, again, people will tip more than $1, but I feel (especially for low-limit games), that anything over $1 is excessive for anything other than absolutely massive pots. When you factor in a $3 rake + a $1 BBJ drop, there's very little room left for tipping. Opinions may vary, but I feel that $1 per hand is a very generous tip as it is. As you play higher limits, the opportunity to tip larger may increase.

SammyG-SD 09-13-2007 07:55 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]

As for tipping, again, people will tip more than $1, but I feel (especially for low-limit games), that anything over $1 is excessive for anything other than absolutely massive pots. When you factor in a $3 rake + a $1 BBJ drop, there's very little room left for tipping. Opinions may vary, but I feel that $1 per hand is a very generous tip as it is. As you play higher limits, the opportunity to tip larger may increase.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree that $1 is fine, except I always feel incline to tip bigger when the dealer saves me from a cooler.

deehi 10-23-2007 06:24 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
this is an excellent post. I play a lot of BM small stakes and I love this post. As for those posting about tipping, do what you feel is best. I tend to give 1-2 bucks on a decent hand(35-40 bucks). On huge megapots of 125-150+ I tend to give $5. The largest single pot i won was a $425 pot and I gave the dealer $10. Now, obvious that is being very generous. But to say, $1 is the overall norm regardless of the pot, is more a personal decision(though I think that you are being cheap).

spino1i 10-23-2007 06:30 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this true? Most of the regs tipped like $1 every pot but many others tipped $3-$5 or more on bigger pots.

[/ QUOTE ]

Conspicuous consumption. You have no need to follow suit, unless you want to be known as "that guy who tips $5 on every $80 pot".

[/ QUOTE ]

If you tip any more than $1 per hand at 2/5, you will be tipping away all your profits.

Mr Rick 10-23-2007 06:45 PM

Re: Beware the Mini-Re Raise
 
[ QUOTE ]
Beware the mini-Re Raise in B&amp;M 1/2 NLHE games.
I've seen many players in 1/2 NLHE games make mini-re-raises with their AA/KK in these B&amp;M cash games. The counter strategy is simply to SILENTLY thank them and smooth call with your QQ using the strategy...no set/no bet. If you get a flop of AQx or KQx.....turn your radar on to detect a possible set over set....

[/ QUOTE ]

I have also seen "large" or "all-in" re-raises pre-flop disproportionate to the current pot size. Be very wary around these. Especially, if the player has a smallish stack (less than a max buy-in) and has not entered any/many hands. Likely hands are AA, KK. Did I mention AA?

mosch 10-23-2007 08:50 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
[ QUOTE ]

If you tip any more than $1 per hand at 2/5, you will be tipping away all your profits.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not arguing for mega-tips, but that is a blatantly false statement.*

*Unless you suck at poker

chopstick 10-23-2007 09:36 PM

Re: A Newbie Guide to B&M Small Stakes No Limit Cash Games
 
I enjoyed reading the original post, as well as the addendums that the OP added later on. Thanks for writing it!

Anyone want to take a shot at writing up something regarding how to open up your range against a loose/passive table, and use superior post-flop skill to outplay the other players? That reply was intriguing.


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