general spot
 

assume you're utg. what are your thoughts on this spot, in general? like what do you have, what would you call a river bet with, what would you bet river with, what would you call a c/r with, etc. (also my spot - what do i have)

Absolute Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $5/$10
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) milesdyson is BB
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises</font>, 3 folds, milesdyson calls.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.6SB, 2 players)
milesdyson checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets</font>, milesdyson calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.3BB, 2 players)
milesdyson checks, UTG checks.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.3BB, 2 players)
milesdyson checks...

Re: general spot
 

QQ and TT-55. Against you I am not calling any of those if you bet. I might call QQ but I'd convince myself you wouldnt value bet a J so all I have is a bluff catcher.

EDIT: I would bet with QQ and check TT-55

Ax, x &lt; T. With these I am obviously calling a bet.

Edit: I would bet any Ax

Re: general spot
 

On the river I can have any ace and worse hands. I'm not paying off with worse than Ax since you won't valuebet a jack, and I don't think you'll bluff to fold a chop or QQ. You also probably won't bet Ax since I won't payoff worse hands.

I won't bet with Ax &lt; Q since I don't think you'll payoff with a jack. The only hand I would consider valuebetting is AQ. I think there's a decent chance you're going for a check/raise with Kx or a flush since I think most TAGs would value bet a chopping Ax on autopilot. However Ax will still payoff so I'd valuebet AQ.

If I bet AQ and got check/raised I would fold although it's exploitable, but I don't think you'll bother in a 4BB pot.

Re: general spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
On the river I can have any ace and worse hands. I'm not paying off with worse than Ax since you won't valuebet a jack, and I don't think you'll bluff to fold a chop or QQ. You also probably won't bet Ax since I won't payoff worse hands.

I won't bet with Ax &lt; Q since I don't think you'll payoff with a jack. The only hand I would consider valuebetting is AQ. I think there's a decent chance you're going for a check/raise with Kx or a flush since I think most TAGs would value bet a chopping Ax on autopilot. However Ax will still payoff so I'd valuebet AQ.

If I bet AQ and got check/raised I would fold although it's exploitable, but I don't think you'll bother in a 4BB pot.

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I would always bet again on the turn with AQ. Is this wrong?

Re: general spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
On the river I can have any ace and worse hands. I'm not paying off with worse than Ax since you won't valuebet a jack, and I don't think you'll bluff to fold a chop or QQ. You also probably won't bet Ax since I won't payoff worse hands.

I won't bet with Ax &lt; Q since I don't think you'll payoff with a jack. The only hand I would consider valuebetting is AQ. I think there's a decent chance you're going for a check/raise with Kx or a flush since I think most TAGs would value bet a chopping Ax on autopilot. However Ax will still payoff so I'd valuebet AQ.

If I bet AQ and got check/raised I would fold although it's exploitable, but I don't think you'll bother in a 4BB pot.

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I would always bet again on the turn with AQ. Is this wrong?

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I would too actually. So I guess I'm checking behind everything on the river.

Re: general spot
 

[ QUOTE ]

EDIT: I would bet with QQ and check TT-55

Ax, x &lt; T. With these I am obviously calling a bet.

Edit: I would bet any Ax

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Do you think Dyson is paying off with Jx? If you're checking behind worse pocket pairs all he can beat is T9s/98s/T8s/87s, depending on how low you go, which you might not even bet, so he shouldn't payoff with Jx.

Re: general spot
 

"Edit: I would bet any Ax "

this is what i was hoping, but i think sharpie is right too. i think when he says "most TAGs would value bet a chopping Ax on autopilot" is what i thought when i tried to checkraise a flush on the river.

Re: general spot
 

Just to make it clear: When I wrote Ax x &lt; T I meant any kicker T and below. So I wouldnt have AQ if I checked the turn.

I think Miles is smart enough to know that when I check the turn I have a pp, Ax x &lt; T and a J. Since Miles know that I know that he is quite capable of c/f'ing I think he will sometimes pay me of with a J. He definetely should call a river bet by me if he had a J. (This means I wont ever play you again Miles [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])


All that said I think you should have bet the river with a frush because a lot of TAGs will be betting Ax on the turn so you have to discount those when turn gets checked through - depending on the player of course.

EDIT: Disregard the last point. he wont pay you of anyway so river c/r is g00t. My bad.

Re: general spot
 

I would have 66-TT, QQ, a suited connector with no diamonds
I'd bet the river with QQ. I don't think there is any value in betting TT or lower. I'd fold it to a c.r.

I'd call a river bet with QQ and fold my other hands.

I'd bluff the connectors sometimes if I think you suck at hand reading

if you're tricky you can have Ax Kx Jx flush

Re: general spot
 

you guys are checking an ace behind on the turn? I would b/f there to charge flush draws, and not give a free card to a straight draw or Jx

Re: general spot
 

yourface -

people don't c/r you on the turn their w/flush draws a lot? don't b/f that HU obv.

Miles i think you have to bet this river. He needs and ace to be able to bet this river if he can think at all. If he is even slightly donktastic then I go for the c/r.

Re: general spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
you guys are checking an ace behind on the turn? I would b/f there to charge flush draws, and not give a free card to a straight draw or Jx

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Miles may suck but he's not a generic 1/2 player ie he's not calling the turn w/ Qx/Jx.

Re: general spot
 

yea but I don't think it's very likely on a board like this that hits our range so hard. we raised UTG pre

I may call down at the table because zomg top pair but I think it would be a good fold vs a TAG

Re: general spot
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you guys are checking an ace behind on the turn? I would b/f there to charge flush draws, and not give a free card to a straight draw or Jx

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Miles may suck but he's not a generic 1/2 player ie he's not calling the turn w/ Qx/Jx.

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thats why I said 'not give a free card to' instead of 'charge'. he'll make the correct fold, but why give him a free shot at his draw