Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

The morning of September 11, 2001 I was in high school just sitting in class when a teacher from across the hall walks in and says that a plane has just crashed into the world trade center. My teacher almost immediately turns the tv on and I get my first glimpse of the world trade center. The reporter is saying that a second plane has crashed into the other tower, and I just keep watching while not really realizing how big of an event this is. I always thought that the news reported what was really going on, it is not until I got out of high school that I started realizing that what I see and hear is not always the truth. There is always two sides to a story and that is what this post is all about. At that time I also did not believe that there would be so many odd coincidences surrounding 9/11.

Before I dive into the 9/11 conspiracy, in 1993 the world trade center was bombed for the first time. There are valid newspaper articles of leaked information that the F.B.I. was involved with terrorists who were trying to blow up the towers. A retired egyptian general was given 1 million dollars, explosives and a detonator, and was told to make a bomb. The F.B.I. had told him that this was just a test and that they were not really going to blow up the tower. Yet the F.B.I. kept track of him and made sure he was not slacking, the officer started to get really worried and was wondering if this was even a test at all. Then one day he got a call from the head of the F.B.I. He secretly recorded a conversation with the head of the F.B.I. of New York ordering him to let this bombing take place. This is all information that the F.B.I. admits to by the way. This bombing is gonna go down, [censored] is about to hit the fan, only one problem, the drivers of the truck were suppossed to park by a main support column, they failed that task and parked about a dozen feet away. This really screwed everything up, the bomb went off, the tower didnt fall, there was no huge death toll, and the media quickly forgot about it. This 1993 attack is of course important, but no longer has nothing to do with 9/11 conspiracy, it was just a failed prelude. I just wanted to give a quick overview of some of the crazy [censored] that happened in 1993.

I could pretty much type out a 5 page essay, but I came to the conclusion that I would just list some of the conspiracies and we can discuss them as a group. Just go ahead and quote one of these and ask a question and I and hopefully other people can give their view on it. I had a hard time figuring out how exactly to make this post, how it is now seemed to be the most efficient way. I also feel that this way leaves everything open for discussion and views which is really what this is all about, lets make this a mission to come to a group conclusion on the validity of some major conspiracies of 9/11. If this thread is successful I will keep adding conspiracies and go further down the wormhole, also if any of u want to post a conspiracy that would be great, I would be happy to give my paranoid view on it.

There are so many conspiracies (coincidences) that I could go on and on about, lets just start with these ones and go from there.


Did Bush know this attack was going to happen, and if he did how long did he know? The CIA received reports from many many many countries saying that they knew bin laden was planning an attack on america.

New World Order. This would take 10 pages to even try to explain (Get a one dollar bill, on the back to the left, the pyramid with the eye) Illumanati.

A few months before the attack Indian and Pakistan diplomats went public stating that U.S. forces were massing outside of Afghanistan.

The Bush and Bin Laden family have ties that go back like half a century. The Carlyle group is the biggest defense contractor on the planet, and the majority owners of this company is of course the Bush and Bin Laden families.

On 9/11 there were war game exercises taking place (a plane hijacking scenario) many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond. Not to mention mass confusion.

There was a huge insurance policy put on the world trade center (specifically covering terrorist attack)

Why were members of the Bin Laden family in America when this attacked happened, and why were they flown out of the country 2 days later?

Were the towers rigged with explosives? (Sup DDY)

What really happened to flight 93? Did it really crash? (I believe that in landed in Ohio) What is up with the crash site photos?

Im gonna save some of the real oddball conspiracies like the information I got on Micheal Moore (was working for the government and left out major obv things in his movie farenheit 9/11). Let me know how good/bad this was so I can make future articles of this nature much better and easier to read. Sorry about the crappy paragraphs [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

Hey, nice job. This is the first conspiracy theory article I've ever actually read in its entirety - I like the way your style isn't over-sensational, and you come across as far more sane than most conspiracy theorists!

I guess of all the conspiracy theories 9/11 is the one that interests me the least (because there's been so much saturation of it), but I suppose conversely that makes it the perfect place to start and these threads could have potential if you carry on with them.

I'd never heard the stuff about the FBI providing an Egyptian guy with bomb making equipment. Can you tell us more about it (especially the part where you say the FBI admit to it) and source it please?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Were the towers rigged with explosives? (Sup DDY)

[/ QUOTE ]

sup duu

These are pretty interesting, but do you have links to articles/evidence for these?

If you're referring to the puffs of smoke that can be seen in the lower floors as the towers collapse, it sounds like that one has been largely debunked.

A number of engineers said those puffs were actually windows, concrete and drywall being blown out. They said as the building fell, the energy compressed the air in the lower floors. As the air compressed, it began to blow out windows. The floors disintegrated under this pressure before the higher floors got to them.

I'm no structural engineer, but that seems to make sense.

[ QUOTE ]
Did Bush know this attack was going to happen, and if he did how long did he know? The CIA received reports from many many many countries saying that they knew bin laden was planning an attack on america.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is unclear whether or not Bush knew, but I thought it was pretty much accepted that the US intelligence community and the CIA in particular, knew that Bin Laden was planning attacks on the US. They were aware of Bin Laden and the threat he posed, but did not take it seriously enough.

[ QUOTE ]
A few months before the attack Indian and Pakistan diplomats went public stating that U.S. forces were massing outside of Afghanistan.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is extremely interesting if you could cite a reliable source

[ QUOTE ]
On 9/11 there were war game exercises taking place (a plane hijacking scenario) many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond. Not to mention mass confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course there was mass confusion. How well do you remember 9/11 and more importantly, how things were in this country before that day? How old were you at the time?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

DDY I have many different videos that I got most of this from, If u want me to I will post the links. Im in the middle of a poker session right now. I will answer some of your questions in a few hours. In the meantime I guess check out this site. www.prisonplanet.com

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

cool, I think posting the links would help.

Also, I would be curious to see how reliable the evidence in these videos is.

I keep an open mind with these conspiracy theories, but time and again, they just don't stand up. I'm over-generalizing, but most of these theories are conveniently selective about underlying data/support. It also seems like 98% of the authors and supporters of these theories fall into a two categories:
[*]college students that while not stupid, lack the experience and training to properly evaluate information and draw conclusions.
[*]authors/radio hosts that have a clear agenda to sell books/boost ratings

Bottom line is that the authors/supporters of these theories are not seasoned investigators, auditors, subject matter experts, etc. etc. Time and again it is shown that their theories are based on incomplete or selective information.

Like I said, I keep an open mind, but I am very skeptical. It takes a lot to convince me.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

what makes you believe United 93 landed?? And if it did, what happened to the plane and the people on it?

While I don't believe any of this conspiracy stuff, I do approve of your avatar. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Like I said, I keep an open mind, but I am very skeptical. It takes a lot to convince me.

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QFT...I've looked at various aspects of 9/11 conspiracy theories, on and off, and I've never seen one that's really impressed me. I think it's possible (and probable) that intelligence may have seen signs of a potential attack, but nothing specific or on this scale.

Incidentally, I read a blogger from the (UK) Guardian who suggested that some of these conspiracy theorists may be working for or supporting G.W. Bush in order to keep people from concentrating on how the war in Iraq is going. That in itself is a conspiracy theory, of course, and not all that believable, but no less so that some of the 9/11 theories.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

I remember hearing alot or sizeable number of important types were absent from work that day (who worked at the WTC)

Salmon Rushdie was one of the names mentioned. Apparantley he was told to stay away by some other important type. Although its never been explained (to me anyway) why he would be there. Or, for that matter, why he would be considered more important than the next guy.

- Anyone hear about that?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
cool, I think posting the links would help.

Also, I would be curious to see how reliable the evidence in these videos is.

I keep an open mind with these conspiracy theories, but time and again, they just don't stand up. I'm over-generalizing, but most of these theories are conveniently selective about underlying data/support. It also seems like 98% of the authors and supporters of these theories fall into a two categories:
[*]college students that while not stupid, lack the experience and training to properly evaluate information and draw conclusions.
[*]authors/radio hosts that have a clear agenda to sell books/boost ratings

Bottom line is that the authors/supporters of these theories are not seasoned investigators, auditors, subject matter experts, etc. etc. Time and again it is shown that their theories are based on incomplete or selective information.

Like I said, I keep an open mind, but I am very skeptical. It takes a lot to convince me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Arent the people who originally reported what happened in 9/11 in this same category though. They are basically looking out for whats best for their ratings, whats best for them, and not causing controversey that could get them killed. I look at George W. Bush as the best example of what u have stated here. U gotta remember that the government is capable of real crazy [censored], and a lot of stuff is done that we dont know about. These conspiracy theories will never become cold hard fact because if they really are the truth, the people that are in power are not going to let it BECOME the truth. The story has been told and the 9/11 commission report has been publicly released (even though it is missing pages, and took over a year).

Here is a good video that supports what I stated, and also supports how much info bush had b4 the attack, and the war game exercises one. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...9&hl=en-GB

I will post some more links shortly. I will answer your first post DDY, Nick thanks for the compliment. Dominic Im not sure if the answer is in this video that I linked, but I assure u I will give details as to why I believe that Flight 93 was not shot down and landed safely.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
I remember hearing alot or sizeable number of important types were absent from work that day (who worked at the WTC)

Salmon Rushdie was one of the names mentioned. Apparantley he was told to stay away by some other important type. Although its never been explained (to me anyway) why he would be there. Or, for that matter, why he would be considered more important than the next guy.

- Anyone hear about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I have, for 2 weeks prior to the attack there were drug dogs and security everywhere. The day of the attack there were no dogs, and hardly any security. Also a bunch of high political officials were told not to fly on 9/11.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

So if these attacks were allowed to happen, perhaps to be used as an excuse for going into Afgahnistan, hasnt that same thing happened before?

At Pearl Harbour?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

I would like to add a little to this thread, but first I'd like to see the evidence that flight 93 landed safely AND the evidence of wat happened to it's passengers and crew afterwards.

Teaser: I used to work in CT and know a little bit more than avg joe about a few things that went down that day.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

I think we should go back to that day:

I was working in downtown Cleveland. The towers were on the Jumbo-Tron at Playhouse Square. The entire city stopped. I was a bike-messenger. As I was going from office to office, people were watching television. NO ONE was working. The entire Square was filled with people. The cars on the streets were stopped.

Why bother with the above?

I am trying illustrate how profoundly emotional that day was. Everyone had a frightened look in their eye. Watching people jump out of a building on a 100 foot television is a silencing experience. I never seen eyes in people face look that way they did that day.

We all went home early. The entirety of downtown was evacuated.

The immediate after-math was denial. No one believed that this could happen on our soil. We didn't have the information about how the CIA and FBI didn't communicate back then. We had no idea that the CIA was a political mess. Everyone thought it was insane that four planes could crash because some dudes had a box-cutter.

No one I knew thought anything added up. But maybe it is all denial on our part.

But there is some things to consider.

Bush was the lowest rated president in history at that point, and he was only a few months in his presidency. Even in September 2001, he was suffering the back-lash from the election fraud.

So, as one of my buddies pointed out. "How do you make people like someone they hate? Find someone to hate more."

Right after that day, everything was restricted. Security guards that knew be by name were all of a sudden frightened of me. Screaming and yelling, chasing me down as I went to the elevators. "Whats in your bag? Why do you have a radio?"

"Dude, settle down, you've seen me everyday for the past three years."

Shortly after, I was in Key West. At the port where the tourist ended their journey, there were guards with machine guns walking around.

Bush then needed to go to war, and created the code color system. Every time a dispute arose, the color went to higher alert. Getting heat for cutting down trees in Alaska, give'em a code orange.

Everything did change after that day, and two things were always going on.

The seeds of these conspiracies started because of the contradictions and dualities.

For example, how did they know Osama bin Laden was ivolved the very next day?

I always did question it, but I haven't been convinced it is an out-right conspiracy.

However, if you would ask me if I think Bush would stop the attacks from happening if he knew about it? I don't think he would. Why was he in Texas that morning anyways, right?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

I usually pity conspiracy theorists (aw, poor paranoid soul!), but more often, I scorn them. Often, as in the case of the OP, you can tell by the way he speaks/writes that he's reasonably intelligent, and it is my belief that a reasonably intelligent person has to make an effort to overcome his intelligence in order to swallow some of this nonsense.

I didn't read the entire OP, but I skimmed a line or two here and there. This particular line floored me:


[ QUOTE ]
On 9/11 there were war game exercises taking place (a plane hijacking scenario) many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're a reasonably intelligent person, you simply cannot believe that a diversion was conjured up in advance to divert every fighter jet in the United States military to Alaska--except for eight of them, who apparently didn't get the memo.

What were they practicing that day, "Let's see if we can get 10,000 fighter jets to fly in a single formation!"???

If they were holding the biggest "war games exercises" in the history of aviation, there would still be a lot more than eight fighter planes that didn't participate in them.

Think about how many Air Force Bases there are in the continental US. There are four or five good-sized ones in California alone. I'm not even counting the Navy flyers, or Marine Harriers, and don't forget the US Army has more aircraft than the other three branches combined.

Now, imagine that every fighter jet from every AFB in the country was ordered to fly up to Alaska the second week in September--except for Nellis AFB in Las Vegas. Every fighter jet in the country, head north; you boys in Vegas, stand by. Do you think there would only be eight jets standing by???

Nellis is home to the 53rd Wing, the 57th Wing, the 98th Range Wing, and the 99th Wing, and the USAF Air Demonstration Squad (The Thunderbirds). I don't know what any of that means, but I bet they can scrape up more than eight fighter jets.

Please explain to me how you can type something as patently foolish as "many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond."

You don't seem like a foolish person. How do you delude yourself into believing such nonsense?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

It's too close to bedtime, but I can tell I'm going to be spending a big chunk of my week debunking nonsense in this thread. Here's an example:

[ QUOTE ]
For example, how did they know Osama bin Laden was ivolved the very next day?

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Who DIDN'T know bin Laden was involved? I didn't--I had never heard of him. But everyone who HAD heard of him, immediately suspected him

Find a copy of Howard Stern's broadcast that day. When he hears that a second plane hit, he refuses to believe it; when he sees video confirmation of it, the first words out of his mouth are, "Where's bin Laden?"

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

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Bush was the lowest rated president in history at that point

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From Wiki:

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...y/bigpolls.jpg

His approval rating was about 50% at the time, and his disapproval numbers were in the 30's. Not nearly "the lowest rated president in history at that point".

EDIT: BTW, that's not a poll conducted by a conservative observer like, say, Fox News. Those numbers are from CBS News/NY Times polls.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
I remember hearing alot or sizeable number of important types were absent from work that day (who worked at the WTC)

- Anyone hear about that?

[/ QUOTE ]

The first plane hit the tower before 9AM. I lot of people, especially the important ones (who in my experience travel a lot and take their time getting into the office) simply were just not in the office yet.

The deathtoll would have been fivefold if the first plane struck the tower at say, 11AM.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

The main problem with all conspiracy theories like those you listed is that they confuse facts and scientific research for speculation and innuendo. Here's a re-post of something I posted in politics about conspiracy theories in general.

[ QUOTE ]
There's a very comprehensive FAQ that deals with the JFK assassination here.

Section 8 of this FAQ deals with the type of tactics conspiracy books/theorists use to perpetrate their theories.

It's a excellent checklist when reviewing conspiracy theorist's "evidence." Here's a summary, but I'd recommend reading the entire section.


1. Sell emotion first

...powerful emotions flow from the belief in a conspiracy. When these feelings can be established upfront by the conspiracy author, typically by enjoining the reader in the author's own passion, the reader may be persuaded to drop his natural skepticism regarding fantastic plots.

2. Scare the reader away from primary documents

A careful reader would examine reports to check whether it is being accurately represented in the conspiracy books. (It's frequently not.) To forestall this examination, which risks exposing the author's deceit, the report is described as unreadable or utterly worthless.

3. Distort the evidence

Since most people will trust a book, and not double-check its claims against the source material, it is a simple matter to alter the import of the evidence by eliminating key details.

4. Emphasize eyewitness testimony

The weakest major class of evidence is eyewitness testimony. This is because of the inherent unreliability of human memory. Not only does memory change over time, even surprisingly short periods, but it is seldom accurate in the first place.

5. Emphasize unsworn witnesses

...interviews given to authors. These are usually conducted in an informal atmosphere, where freewheeling speculation and factual recollection may become mingled. The subject is under no obligation to be truthful, and the author has the freedom to follow suggestive lines of inquiry. The author can also quote out of context since his notes are a private document.

6. Raise non-essential issues

Every piece of evidence has to be challenged. Raising doubts ...even when it is of no import.

7. Omit the complete context of the evidence

Conspiracy authors omit much of the context of their evidence, only it is usually for worse motives than concealing controversy. It is more often to make the evidence sound more sinister than it is.

8. Promote yourself to expert

The vast majority of conspiracy books are written by laymen, persons with no relevant expertise to the technical issues in the case. This is not necessarily a bar to writing a well-researched book. Many generalists make excellent journalists. However, such writers know their limitations and rely on unbiased experts in the various fields. Too many conspiracy authors, on the other hand, pass judgment on technical issues without consulting the real experts.

9. Don't solicit the other side of the story

Often in conspiracy books, the author cites a quote or two, or a memo or handwritten notation, from some person involved with case, and tells us that the person is inconsistent and must therefore be incompetent or have something sinister to hide.

10. Accuse the defenseless

In the great conspiracy hunt, many innuendos get tossed around, suggestive of lying, cover-up, of acquiesence and complicity in extremely serious crimes. However, there is a risk for the conspiracy author of libel sanctions. The careful reader will therefore discern a measure of caution in the way things are worded. Outright accusations are seldom made unless the victim is unable to defend themselves, either because they are public figures who can't legally retaliate, or they are dead.

11. Emphasize preliminary information

...hasty judgments are often poor judgments. If such judgments are made to the press, whether right or not, they become immortalized in print or on film.

12. Recycle discredited evidence

In one of the most seriously deceptive techniques employed by conspiracy books, old issues are raised to provoke the readers' anxiety, but the reader is not informed of the resolution to the issue. It's one thing to dispute the resolution, it's another to conceal it from the unwitting reader.

[/ QUOTE ]

This quote is a good example of this:

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On 9/11 there were war game exercises taking place (a plane hijacking scenario) many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond. Not to mention mass confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wrong. I know someone that was scrambled when the planes begin to hit. There weren't only 8 planes available.

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention mass confusion.

[/ QUOTE ]

According to whom? The fighter pilot I know and his wing didn't experience "mass confusion."

But, even though I say that and this information can easily be checked you'll see conspiracy theorists still parrot these same types of "facts" over and over again.

Belief in conspiracy theories is a very good barometer of judging if someone can think logically and distinguish relevant facts from emotion and heresy. Sadly too many people fail this simple test.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
I usually pity conspiracy theorists (aw, poor paranoid soul!), but more often, I scorn them. Often, as in the case of the OP, you can tell by the way he speaks/writes that he's reasonably intelligent, and it is my belief that a reasonably intelligent person has to make an effort to overcome his intelligence in order to swallow some of this nonsense.

I didn't read the entire OP, but I skimmed a line or two here and there. This particular line floored me:


[ QUOTE ]
On 9/11 there were war game exercises taking place (a plane hijacking scenario) many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're a reasonably intelligent person, you simply cannot believe that a diversion was conjured up in advance to divert every fighter jet in the United States military to Alaska--except for eight of them, who apparently didn't get the memo.

What were they practicing that day, "Let's see if we can get 10,000 fighter jets to fly in a single formation!"???

If they were holding the biggest "war games exercises" in the history of aviation, there would still be a lot more than eight fighter planes that didn't participate in them.

Think about how many Air Force Bases there are in the continental US. There are four or five good-sized ones in California alone. I'm not even counting the Navy flyers, or Marine Harriers, and don't forget the US Army has more aircraft than the other three branches combined.

Now, imagine that every fighter jet from every AFB in the country was ordered to fly up to Alaska the second week in September--except for Nellis AFB in Las Vegas. Every fighter jet in the country, head north; you boys in Vegas, stand by. Do you think there would only be eight jets standing by???

Nellis is home to the 53rd Wing, the 57th Wing, the 98th Range Wing, and the 99th Wing, and the USAF Air Demonstration Squad (The Thunderbirds). I don't know what any of that means, but I bet they can scrape up more than eight fighter jets.

Please explain to me how you can type something as patently foolish as "many of our fighter jets were doing these exercises (some of which took place in alaska). There were only 8 jets that were able to respond."

You don't seem like a foolish person. How do you delude yourself into believing such nonsense?

[/ QUOTE ]

Upon reading what u have wrote, I now realize how bad I screwed up when writing out that one about having hardly any fighter jets in the air to protect our country. I know that it is crazy to believe that a diversion could be planned in advance for all the fighters to not be able to respond. It is also crazy to believe a lot of the other things I have said, but if the planes could not have been diverted we could of atleast stopped the airliner crashing into the pentagon, we probably could of stopped the 2 airliners from crashing into the towers. That could not happen because these attacks are part of the plan, to get America into war, and to make lots and lots of money. Take a step back and look at all the intelligence failures leading up to the 9/11, during the actual attack, and the cover ups that followed after the attack. To me there seems to be a lot of people slacking off. I got more information on why I believe our skies were unprotected, I just need to find it. For now I ask that u watch this video during 23:00 to 30:00 http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...3&hl=en-GB

Also check out this news article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2222205.stm


I also encourage everyone reading this to atleast browse through this site - http://www.911timeline.net


I will be back later to answer earlier questions (I promise)

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
if the planes could not have been diverted we could of atleast stopped the airliner crashing into the pentagon, we probably could of stopped the 2 airliners from crashing into the towers.

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

No one knew the planes were hijacked until after the first plance crashed into the WTC. Even after they knew there were planes being hijacked they didn't know how many or which ones were being so! Do you know how many commercial airliners are in the air over the U.S. at any give moment? A lot. A lot more than the military can keep tabs on.

You theory is preposterous.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

I resubmit my question regarding the evidence of flight 93 landing and what happened to all the pasenegrs?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if the planes could not have been diverted we could of atleast stopped the airliner crashing into the pentagon, we probably could of stopped the 2 airliners from crashing into the towers.

[/ QUOTE ]

how?

No one knew the planes were hijacked until after the first plance crashed into the WTC. Even after they knew there were planes being hijacked they didn't know how many or which ones were being so! Do you know how many commercial airliners are in the air over the U.S. at any give moment? A lot. A lot more than the military can keep tabs on.

You theory is preposterous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can understand why u think that this is preposterous. I would like u to look at the bigger picture though. The right people knew this was going to happen, and they had spent a great deal of time preparing for this attack. Our government has been trying to blow up the tower since atleast 1993. So I stand by my statement that this did not have to happen. 9/11 was a success because of so many failures, just like JFK. This is all tied to the New World Order (skull & bones). They need to instill fear into Americans so that our country can become a police state. Dont even get me started on the patriot act, which of course was put into effect after 9/11.


[ QUOTE ]
I resubmit my question regarding the evidence of flight 93 landing and what happened to all the pasenegrs?

[/ QUOTE ]

I need to find the right video where I got this information from, my next post will give an answer your question. I like where this thread is going so keep asking questions and keep calling me crazy. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

This is indeed becoming an interesting thread.

YouTalkFunny, thank you for your annotations. I didn't realize that Howard Stern know Bin Laden's name. Interesting factoids.

I was attempting to illustrate two points in my post. One is that with the emotions involved with 9/11, people were ripe to believe just about any conspiracy. The first few things did not add up. This is touched upon in Esad's post. Emotions have long been understood to be the driving force behind many decisions. Dale Carnegie's entire book is based on how people are not cold and logical beings.

There are tons of holes in the conspiracy theorists stories, but there also tons of holes in the official story. The Bush administration still receives a lot of flack for it's secrecy.

Why did they take so long to open up the official files for the security counsel to view? What of the official report that Bush supposedly received a few weeks before 9/11, describing a planned hijacking. True, Bush could not have conceivably stopped all flights. Supposedly, the flight instructor in Florida sent a report to (?????) about these particular trainees, saying that they seemed like they were going to crash the plains into a building or something. Why did the instructor continue training these guys if he had so much concern? And why wasn't this investigated.

Lastly, do you really believe that these plains were jacked with 3 inch blades? And how, exactly were cell-phone calls made from a mile into the sky? I understand curvature, but cell phones need to be fairly close to a cell phone tower to work.

I don't agree with everything in this post, and my last question may seem like a non-issue, but that is how we "know" what happened.

I think that the truth has not been completely told. I do not believe that 93 was shot down or landed safely. Wasn't one of the victims a senators wife?

I believe that the real story is somewhere between the conspiracy and the official story.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

Conspiracy theorists always hear the parts they want and ignore the rest. Yes, I paid you a compliment but I did also ask a question [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

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Our government has been trying to blow up the tower since atleast 1993. So I stand by my statement that this did not have to happen. 9/11 was a success because of so many failures, just like JFK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you tell us more about the Egyptian guy given bomb equipment by the FBI, and do you have a sensible source where you can show us the FBI "admitted" this was the case?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Conspiracy theorists always hear the parts they want and ignore the rest. Yes, I paid you a compliment but I did also ask a question [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Our government has been trying to blow up the tower since atleast 1993. So I stand by my statement that this did not have to happen. 9/11 was a success because of so many failures, just like JFK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you tell us more about the Egyptian guy given bomb equipment by the FBI, and do you have a sensible source where you can show us the FBI "admitted" this was the case?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I can and will, im currently looking for video proof of another theory of flight 93. I will get more info of the 1993 incident next.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is indeed becoming an interesting thread.

YouTalkFunny, thank you for your annotations. I didn't realize that Howard Stern know Bin Laden's name. Interesting factoids.

I was attempting to illustrate two points in my post. One is that with the emotions involved with 9/11, people were ripe to believe just about any conspiracy. The first few things did not add up. This is touched upon in Esad's post. Emotions have long been understood to be the driving force behind many decisions. Dale Carnegie's entire book is based on how people are not cold and logical beings.

There are tons of holes in the conspiracy theorists stories, but there also tons of holes in the official story. The Bush administration still receives a lot of flack for it's secrecy.

Why did they take so long to open up the official files for the security counsel to view? What of the official report that Bush supposedly received a few weeks before 9/11, describing a planned hijacking. True, Bush could not have conceivably stopped all flights. Supposedly, the flight instructor in Florida sent a report to (?????) about these particular trainees, saying that they seemed like they were going to crash the plains into a building or something. Why did the instructor continue training these guys if he had so much concern? And why wasn't this investigated.

Lastly, do you really believe that these plains were jacked with 3 inch blades? And how, exactly were cell-phone calls made from a mile into the sky? I understand curvature, but cell phones need to be fairly close to a cell phone tower to work.

I don't agree with everything in this post, and my last question may seem like a non-issue, but that is how we "know" what happened.

I think that the truth has not been completely told. I do not believe that 93 was shot down or landed safely. Wasn't one of the victims a senators wife?

I believe that the real story is somewhere between the conspiracy and the official story.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with a lot of this and have just right the link for u, will post shortly.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
I resubmit my question regarding the evidence of flight 93 landing and what happened to all the pasenegrs?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...3501&hl=en 1:14:00 to 1:24:00


[ QUOTE ]
Conspiracy theorists always hear the parts they want and ignore the rest. Yes, I paid you a compliment but I did also ask a question [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
Our government has been trying to blow up the tower since atleast 1993. So I stand by my statement that this did not have to happen. 9/11 was a success because of so many failures, just like JFK.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can you tell us more about the Egyptian guy given bomb equipment by the FBI, and do you have a sensible source where you can show us the FBI "admitted" this was the case?

[/ QUOTE ]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5&hl=en-CA 14:30 - 17:30

I cannot show u the document, but I now have inspiration to try and find it. U do not have to start both of these videos from the beginning u can just drag the bar over to the times that I have given. I do highly reccomend the first video I submitted in this post be watched all the way through.

DaveT I will give u some of my insight on what u said in my next post.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

Although most of the OP is a reach IMO that requires a pretty large suspension of disbelief, the truly LOL part to me is about flight 93 landing safely.

The general reason I don't believe conspiracies like this is that they require a large number of people to play along. Let's look at flight 93, for example. They land the plane. Where do the people go? Not back to their families obviously. They just disappeared. Mass murder? If not the government says look, this is all fake, we're putting you in some Witness Protection Program kind of deal, you can never see your families again. Well, what's to stop them from calling, e-mailing, just showing up there one day? Does not compute.

And that's just that aspect of it. All the other collaborative stuff over time that led up to that and nothing leaked? If I'm FBI or whatever and I get a whiff of this I'd like to think I wouldn't keep quiet.

Regarding the phone comment, I just assumed they used those phones that are embedded into the back of the seats.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

Not to mention that it has been shown that cell phones can work as high as 50K feet.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention that it has been shown that cell phones can work as high as 50K feet.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2001?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Not to mention that it has been shown that cell phones can work as high as 50K feet.

[/ QUOTE ]

In 2001?

[/ QUOTE ]

yup

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

C,

Also, I did read this entire thread before posting as is my MO always. "Grunching" in non-strat threads is a poster's way of saying "hey I really don't care what you all have to say but here's my opinion". I also realize that is going to be tougher in a forum like this where people are more verbose. Anyway, you didn't address the flight 93 thing so I'm looking forward to that.

Hey, thoughts on the conspiracy theory linked in this awesome thread of mine about DIA? God I hate myself for this, but there is a lot of creepy stuff in that linked site that does make you wonder.

And I know this is probably taking this thread in an unwelcome direction but we're a gentle bunch: it always bugged me that Bush bore so much responsibility and blame in the media, and Clinton seemed to get off scot free when it was on his watch that all of this developed. I'm pretty politically indifferent though but I tended to have an anti-Clinton chip on my shoulder so I may be projecting that. Sorry of this is too o/t.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
I think we should go back to that day:

I was working in downtown Cleveland. The towers were on the Jumbo-Tron at Playhouse Square. The entire city stopped. I was a bike-messenger. As I was going from office to office, people were watching television. NO ONE was working. The entire Square was filled with people. The cars on the streets were stopped.

Why bother with the above?

I am trying illustrate how profoundly emotional that day was. Everyone had a frightened look in their eye. Watching people jump out of a building on a 100 foot television is a silencing experience. I never seen eyes in people face look that way they did that day.

We all went home early. The entirety of downtown was evacuated.

The immediate after-math was denial. No one believed that this could happen on our soil. We didn't have the information about how the CIA and FBI didn't communicate back then. We had no idea that the CIA was a political mess. Everyone thought it was insane that four planes could crash because some dudes had a box-cutter.

No one I knew thought anything added up. But maybe it is all denial on our part.

But there is some things to consider.

Bush was the lowest rated president in history at that point, and he was only a few months in his presidency. Even in September 2001, he was suffering the back-lash from the election fraud.

So, as one of my buddies pointed out. "How do you make people like someone they hate? Find someone to hate more."

Right after that day, everything was restricted. Security guards that knew be by name were all of a sudden frightened of me. Screaming and yelling, chasing me down as I went to the elevators. "Whats in your bag? Why do you have a radio?"

"Dude, settle down, you've seen me everyday for the past three years."

Shortly after, I was in Key West. At the port where the tourist ended their journey, there were guards with machine guns walking around.

Bush then needed to go to war, and created the code color system. Every time a dispute arose, the color went to higher alert. Getting heat for cutting down trees in Alaska, give'em a code orange.

Everything did change after that day, and two things were always going on.

The seeds of these conspiracies started because of the contradictions and dualities.

For example, how did they know Osama bin Laden was ivolved the very next day?

I always did question it, but I haven't been convinced it is an out-right conspiracy.

However, if you would ask me if I think Bush would stop the attacks from happening if he knew about it? I don't think he would. Why was he in Texas that morning anyways, right?

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Yes, lets not forget that our economy was going to [censored], and pretty much went to [censored] after 9/11. History has proven that war can make weak presidents strong, and can create jobs and motivate us as americans to take pride in ourselves and fight for our rights. So we went to Afghanistan and liberated it w/e, Osama got away. At this point in time Osama`s name was pretty much everywhere, especially when it became public that we have not captured him and he allegedly slipped into Pakistan. I believe that as long as Bush is in power we are not going to catch him. The Bush and Bin Laden families go way way way back, trust me they were never interested in catching Bin Laden. Bin Laden and his family are worth a lot, also dont forget that Saudi Arabia is a major player in Americas economy. The Bush family and Saudi`s mise well be family. Anyway let me get back to my point, we werent after Osama, but we cant just quit and let him get away we need a diversion. All of a sudden there are weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and Saddamm Hussein is planning to use them. How the [censored] do we go from chasing down the alleged mastermind behind 9/11 to go after Saddamm Hussein? Please I so want to know more details on this.

That color code system is just a beginning of what the great patriot act would poop on us. Some people may not take these theories seriously, but that does not matter, as long as u read them and judge for yourself after seeing [censored] from a different view is what really matters. The patriot act is 100% real and is destroying our freedoms.

There is no way Bush would of stopped the attacks, even if he wanted to he did not have the power to stop such a massively staged plan. I keep repeating this but it is important, There were a lot of people connected to the Bush family that made a [censored] load of money after those towers fell.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way Bush would of stopped the attacks, even if he wanted to he did not have the power to stop such a massively staged plan.

[/ QUOTE ]
Although you lose me earlier by ranting instead of presenting fact (long but not inaccurate synopsis about the economy, creating a very Orwellian outside enemy to distract from local woes, etc.), I completely disconnect when I read this. How could he not have the power to stop this? And what I mean is, in your OP you said it was an inside job. Are you saying that certain nefarious sources are like "LOLZ we're gunna take down the WTC Dubya and there's nothing you can do about it" and he's like "WTF, well OK whatever, later on brahs"?

Also, still waiting on the flight 93 thing, and am genuinely interested on your take about the DIA stuff.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is no way Bush would of stopped the attacks, even if he wanted to he did not have the power to stop such a massively staged plan.

[/ QUOTE ]
Although you lose me earlier by ranting instead of presenting fact (long but not inaccurate synopsis about the economy, creating a very Orwellian outside enemy to distract from local woes, etc.), I completely disconnect when I read this. How could he not have the power to stop this? And what I mean is, in your OP you said it was an inside job. Are you saying that certain nefarious sources are like "LOLZ we're gunna take down the WTC Dubya and there's nothing you can do about it" and he's like "WTF, well OK whatever, later on brahs"?

Also, still waiting on the flight 93 thing, and am genuinely interested on your take about the DIA stuff.

[/ QUOTE ]

What im saying is that Bush is a member of Skull & Bones, (New World Order, Illumanati) 9/11 is just the start towards making Americans be very afraid, that way congress could sign [censored] like the patriot act and start turning America into a police state (Think V for Vendetta) Bush was helped into power by the nwo. I pretty much look at Bush as a puppet, but he is still the person who can put things into motion. I will elaborate more tommorrow as I feel that this response is subpar.

I made a post earlier about flight93 and do u mean CIA stuff?

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

I can't believe I read the whole thing.

First thing is first -- videos and websites created by other conspiracy theorists that don't have direct proof, just more innuendo and and loaded questions, are not substantial proof. You keep saying that you have sources and facts and keep linking to videos that have no sources or facts. This is a huge reason why it's so easy to punch holes in conspiracy theories. It's like playing post-office -- no one has a source or facts, and when pressed, the argument is immediately crushed under investigation.

Secondly, and most importantly - each one of the "facts" you've presented has been shredded already by science or record. The military stuff, Bush's ratings, workers and guard dogs missing, Flight 93, the structural stuff -- all that's left is innuendo "Bush didn't stop it", "How did everyone know to say Bin Laden?", "Blood for oil", "war machine". Innuendo is fun for social groups and old women, but it should never be part of a serious debate.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Secondly, and most importantly - each one of the "facts" you've presented has been shredded already by science or record.

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Ok u have your beliefs and that is fine, but how do u know that the facts u believe are the 100% truth? I am not alone in looking into these things. U really should check out www.911timeline.net since a lot of the stuff I have said can be backed up by reading through this comprehensive list of articles from ACTUAL newspapers.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

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I'm going to be spending a big chunk of my week debunking nonsense in this thread.

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When I typed that sentence, I had no idea what a bottomless well was waiting for me.

I was hoping that I might bring rationality to the irrational, but debunking a paranoid's belief doesn't show him that his logic may be faulty. Instead he points to the rest of his irrational beliefs, and confuses my lack of interest in debunking everything that comes out of his mouth for my inability to do so.

I've got better things to do than battle a Hydra. You conspiracy buffs, go forth, and believe whatever you want.

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm going to be spending a big chunk of my week debunking nonsense in this thread.

[/ QUOTE ]

When I typed that sentence, I had no idea what a bottomless well was waiting for me.

I was hoping that I might bring rationality to the irrational, but debunking a paranoid's belief doesn't show him that his logic may be faulty. Instead he points to the rest of his irrational beliefs, and confuses my lack of interest in debunking everything that comes out of his mouth for my inability to do so.

I've got better things to do than battle a Hydra. You conspiracy buffs, go forth, and believe whatever you want.

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Wow exactly what did I do to make u feel this way? I had answered your first post, with a conspiracy theory. Maybe I have not made it clear enough that these will always be theories and what is in the official 9/11 report goes down in history as the truth. That doesnt mean we cant look at [censored] from a different perspective, and just because u dont agree with that perspective at all it is only 100% faulty through your view. If I somehow angered u and made u feel like I was putting u down, I am sorry, as this was not my intent. U gave me a story from a certain perspective, I gave u the same story from a certain perspective. My intent is not to make anyone believe me, I just want to talk about certain events that occured before,during, and after 9/11. It so happens that there is a lot of information out there on this subject and a lot of different views and opinions. I cannot believe u would take such an immature stance on this, from your 3 posts u seemed like u really wanted to help form a good idea on what really went down. Which is what I really want to see happen (reread my OP)

Re: Conspire`s 9/11 Conspiracies
 

[ QUOTE ]
Wow exactly what did I do to make u feel this way?

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely nothing. Don't take it personally.

I thought I could convince a few people who considered the conspiracy side of things, to reconsider. As the thread progressed, I saw how dug in many people are to their position, and that I had vastly underestimated how much misinformation is floating around out there.

It would be a full time job to try to address everyone's pet factoid, point by point--and I'm just not interested enough to do all the work that would be involved in that.

Finally, I have been remiss to have gone this deep into your thread without also adding my compliments to your avatar. It's beautiful.