Cuba Embargo
 

This has bugged me for a while, but it came up today when I heard that the Miami herald published an Obama op-ed piece criticizing the Bush Admin's recent tightening of the embargo. The fact of the matter is, Castro is way down on the brutal dictator list and Cuba isn't even close to deserving the treatment we heap on them (travel ban, remittance restrictions, trade ban).

On top of this, its become increasingly obvious that sanctions don't work to cause regime changes. Also the primary reason for the embargo, Castro hatred among Cuban expats, is weakenig. I don't know if Obama has a "Nixon goes to China" moment in him, but he's our best shot.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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I don't know if Obama has a "Nixon goes to China" moment in him, but he's our best shot.

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Ron Paul?

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

"On top of this, its become increasingly obvious that sanctions don't work to cause regime changes."

Yeah, increasingly obvious. After 20 years of sanctions failed to topple Castro, it was still iffy. After 30, the evidence got a bit clearer. 40 years and people with two brain cells to rub together started thinking that perhaps Castro was here to stay. But now, after 47 years, and Castro on his death bed, we've finally gotten to this point where letting people visit and send money to their relatives slightly more often is even on the political table. What a country!

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

PVN, Most likely to execute instead of most likely to support.

WW, I was thinking specificially in terms of sanctions on other countries, NK and Iraq are two easy ones.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

Has there been anything studied or written about whether having an embargo against a place like Cuba acts as a deterrent to other nations in the US's sphere of influence to attaining similar adverse status? If so that could be a valid reason for keeping it place even if its not effective in terms of regime change and other overtly stated purposes.

It does however seem as though this is remnant of the cold war and due for some reevaluation especially if Cuba would become a profitable trading partner for the US businesses.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

should have invaded Cuba instead of Iraq to get rid of this problem. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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This has bugged me for a while, but it came up today when I heard that the Miami herald published an Obama op-ed piece criticizing the Bush Admin's recent tightening of the embargo. The fact of the matter is, Castro is way down on the brutal dictator list and Cuba isn't even close to deserving the treatment we heap on them (travel ban, remittance restrictions, trade ban).

On top of this, its become increasingly obvious that sanctions don't work to cause regime changes. Also the primary reason for the embargo, Castro hatred among Cuban expats, is weakenig. I don't know if Obama has a "Nixon goes to China" moment in him, but he's our best shot.

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I agreee with you on sanctions being generally bad and that they don't work for the desired political purposes (one exception I can think of at the moment, though: restriction of dual-use military equipment, as trying to keep that kind of stuff out of the hands of dictators is a good idea. But that's really a different issue).

Cuba is probably pretty far down the list of international concerns at the moment, but IMO it is prett silly that these ineffective (and by now, largely pointless) sanctions are still in place or are getting tightened. It's actually worse than silly, as some of the sanctions mentioned might prevent Cuban-Americans from adequately helping relieve the poverty of relatives or family still in Cuba.

More misguided policies courtesy of the massive federal government.

Fidel/Raul Die.....Then We Talk Trade
 

Communist Cuba under Castro has spread a lot of evil in the world.
Spreading wars in Africa, Central America, and South America. Then at the birth of communist Cuba, Castro stole a lot of American assets via nationalization. I think Americans have reason to be irritated with Castro.... Then that fool Kennedy tried to get payback via the Bay of Pigs and he screwed that up..... Typical....

The embargo won't be forever but if we open up trade with Cuba, Castro is the big winner and he could use the wealth from trade to finance more revolution like Hugo Chavez wants to. I don't want to reward Castro so my position is no trade until BOTH Castro brothers die (Fidel and Raul)... Both this men are despicable human beings that have killed millions of people with their attempts to spread communism. Screw them... After they die, then we can talk about normalizing our relationship with Cuba.

PS
Cuban cigars suck! I tried some in the Caribb and I was VERY disappointed.

Re: Fidel/Raul Die.....Then We Talk Trade
 

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Communist Cuba under Castro has spread a lot of evil in the world.
Spreading wars in Africa, Central America, and South America. Then at the birth of communist Cuba, Castro stole a lot of American assets via nationalization. I think Americans have reason to be irritated with Castro.... Then that fool Kennedy tried to get payback via the Bay of Pigs and he screwed that up..... Typical....

The embargo won't be forever but if we open up trade with Cuba, Castro is the big winner and he could use the wealth from trade to finance more revolution like Hugo Chavez wants to. I don't want to reward Castro so my position is no trade until BOTH Castro brothers die (Fidel and Raul)... Both this men are despicable human beings that have killed millions of people with their attempts to spread communism. Screw them... After they die, then we can talk about normalizing our relationship with Cuba.

PS
Cuban cigars suck! I tried some in the Caribb and I was VERY disappointed.

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You rewarded castro? He's using your BIG AMERICAN DOLLAR to finance more revolution! I'm reporting you to the neocon reeducation center immediately. Do not run, agents will arrive shortly to take you away.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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PVN, Most likely to execute instead of most likely to support.

WW, I was thinking specificially in terms of sanctions on other countries, NK and Iraq are two easy ones.

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Is my reading comprehension out here or are you suggesting that it is possible, if not likely, Ron Paul would call for the execution of Castro? Or are you merely stating chances of him supporting Castro are so slim that execution is slightly less unrealistic?

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

I meant execute=implement a reconciliation policy.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

Why exactly would we lower or eliminate the sanctions on Cuba, a communist nation that basically borders our country?

So people who fled that country cannot send money back?

No thanks.

So we can pump up their economy?

Pass.

Cigars?

Not interested.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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Why exactly would we lower or eliminate the sanctions on Cuba, a communist nation that basically borders our country?

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It is frequently observed that harsh sanctions have a tendency to cement the power of dictators. Growth and development weaken their overall hold (the firmer you squeeze the more systems will slip between your fingers) on the country. More opponents will appear and more options for progress.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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Why exactly would we lower or eliminate the sanctions on Cuba, a communist nation that basically borders our country?

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I think a really good reason would be if it was finacially profitable to do so. Are we really worried about Cuba being a threat, are they sponsoring terrorist? If not and the U.S economy can make $$$ then I say lets go for it.

Re: Fidel/Raul Die.....Then We Talk Trade
 

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Communist Cuba under Castro has spread a lot of evil in the world.
Spreading wars in Africa, Central America, and South America.

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What, you mean the ideological "cleansing" that the US financed?

In south america the US supported and financed several military coups over a period of at least 5 decades, to overthrow democratically elected unconvenient presidents and install subsequent dictators, in order to assassin and persecute leftist people and smother leftist or otherwise unconvenient ideals. That's all the war related to communism that I can think of in south america.

In any case, why assume all wars are bad a priori? The republican/capitalist revolution also spawned war, death and temporary chaos, but things ended up better because of it.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

I think it is in the US's interest to lift the embargo. It is in Cuba's interest, too.

Among other things, with the lifting I think it's likely that Cuba will become more of a sort of communist/capitalist hybrid like China, which while it's far from what the US would like, it's closer to it's interests than what Cuba is today.

If communism is to be eradicated, I think this is the best way to go.

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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should have invaded Cuba instead of Iraq to get rid of this problem. [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

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do you support terrorism or just have double standards?

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

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Has there been anything studied or written about whether having an embargo against a place like Cuba acts as a deterrent to other nations in the US's sphere of influence to attaining similar adverse status? If so that could be a valid reason for keeping it place even if its not effective in terms of regime change and other overtly stated purposes.


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ugh

The US government has no right to tell americans where they can and can't go and who they can and can't trade with.

The idea of doing stuff like this to keep other countries "in line" is even worse.

imperialism is bad, mmmkay?

Re: Cuba Embargo
 

With free trade, both sides gain. That's why they trade. Why have an embargo and
a) Hurt US citizens
b) Hurt Cuban citizens and thus make it easier for a dictator to stay in power. The happier the people the harder it is to be a dictator

That and Baseball + cigars + Cuban women. Enough said.