Difficult preflop spot
 

No real history with wynn but basically i just have to be ahead of him....What would your preflop priority be vs an unknown, anyone think folding or raising is much better than calling?

PokerStars Game #11566476377: Hold'em No Limit ($5/$10) - 2007/08/19 - 01:22:54 (ET)
Table 'Spartacus' 6-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: EmpireMaker2 ($1152 in chips)
Seat 2: jayzmo ($762.50 in chips)
Seat 3: 20 Buck Spin ($1643 in chips)
Seat 4: petiprince ($734.40 in chips)
Seat 5: wynn1365 ($1033 in chips)
Seat 6: mossyhorn ($1679 in chips)
petiprince: posts small blind $5
wynn1365: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to EmpireMaker2 [Js Jd]
mossyhorn: raises $30 to $40
EmpireMaker2: calls $40
jayzmo: folds
20 Buck Spin: folds
petiprince: calls $35
wynn1365: raises $130 to $170
mossyhorn: calls $130
THA MAKER?????

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

fold > shove > call?

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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fold > shove > call?

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just in terms of preflop... i think call > fold > shove

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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fold > shove > call?

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just in terms of preflop... i think call > fold > shove

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yea, i agree. we have the best hand some tho prob not often and position.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I kinda like a shove here...there is a lot of money in the pot and I think we get looked up very very light here.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

Shove.

Your hand is fairly strong and underrepresented, wynn could be squeezing with a range that you're far ahead of, and mossy is terrible if he's slowplaying a higher PP.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

normally i'd argue for a shove but christ are these two players nits

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

shove you nit

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

if you shove will he call with TT or a worse pair? probably not. so if the $350 you want to nab is worth the $1k or more that you're spending on it, then shove is viable.

i'm in the calling camp myself, though QQ+ or AK would probably be shoves in the same spot.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I always shove if I get to this spot like this.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

read on mossyhorn?

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

The "call a standard raise, shove over a 3bet" move almost always screams "I have a mid pair up to JJ at best".
Everyone else in the hand can pretty much play perfectly as a result. For that reason I'd prefer a call, although I think it's better to 3bet yourself in the first place.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

i mean i'd be all for shoving if the squeezer was a total idiot but vs most i think calling is best cause when stacks go in you will basically never be a favorite.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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fold > shove > call?

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just in terms of preflop... i think call > fold > shove

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I like call>shove>fold more.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I think it is very unlikely that someone tries a squeeze play against 3 players with the original raiser UTG. So I would put him on a strong range TT+/AK maybe AQs and if he is prepared to call your shove with this range you will be 45/55 small underdog, which is much better than I thought. Even against KK+/AK you’re still only a 40/60 underdog. With all the money that is already in the pott it is probably best to shove.

Shove > call > fold

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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The "call a standard raise, shove over a 3bet" move almost always screams "I have a mid pair up to JJ at best".
Everyone else in the hand can pretty much play perfectly as a result. For that reason I'd prefer a call, although I think it's better to 3bet yourself in the first place.

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the "call a standard raise, overcall a standard reraise" move almost always screams "I have a mid pair up to JJ at best"

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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No real history with wynn but basically i just have to be ahead of him....

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are u saying ur surely ahead of the of the UTG opener?

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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The "call a standard raise, shove over a 3bet" move almost always screams "I have a mid pair up to JJ at best".
Everyone else in the hand can pretty much play perfectly as a result. For that reason I'd prefer a call, although I think it's better to 3bet yourself in the first place.

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the "call a standard raise, overcall a standard reraise" move almost always screams "I have a mid pair up to JJ at best"

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Yes, but is QQ+ not going to make a continuation bet on a board of 5 8 J against two callers? Given the size of the pot and stacks you're going to be called all-in regardless of how much it screams that you've probably hit a set based on your preflop call.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I don't think he'll mind too much if we call an additional 13% of effective stacks to chase a set

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

Another vote for call > shove > fold

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

If we call whats are plan for the flop?


crai on jack high or lower boards and c/f when any overs flop?

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

just setmine...

probably also pray that maybe once every 10 hands it gets checked down and we win vs 2 AK's or something

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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If we call whats are plan for the flop?

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Bet 400 if checked to on a safe board without an A, K or Q and call if you're checkraised all-in. Fold if either BB or UTG bet. Raise a J all-in.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

lolol EM2 is playing 5/10 now?

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

Call> Shove> Fold

Probably 3-bet it though in the first place.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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lolol EM2 is playing 5/10 now?

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he moved up from 2/4

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

jacks are the nuts preflop for me

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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jacks are the nuts preflop for me

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Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I prefer fold, little deeper I play set time, not a spot I like to shove.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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lolol EM2 is playing 5/10 now?

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he moved up from 2/4

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Ive played like 10 hands of 2-4, and play anywhere from 3-6 to 25-50 now depending on the games so stop hating.

And yes flawless I think im like ahead of mossy everytime unless he has QQ. He seems to be really standard/bad from m read.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I got looked up by a player who I consider a good thinking aggrodonk with 99 who thought I was a 19/10 nit and STILL called when I shoved with Aces in this spot. So yeah, I'd say you'd get looked up by worse here if you shove at times.

Problem is, UTG is still in. You have no money invested. fold > shove > call imo.

Mark

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

I don't think a call is part of the equation here.

Re: Difficult preflop spot
 

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No real history with wynn but basically i just have to be ahead of him....

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are u saying ur surely ahead of the of the UTG opener?

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ya this was what i had a problem with. dude opened UTG and then called a reraise putting in like 1/6th of his stack i'd be pretty worried about him