67s deep vs 2+2er RR ; good flop
 

No Limit Hold'em Ring Game (6 max) , 5 players
Blinds : $1/$2

Stacks:
UTG : $200
CO : $356 (Hero)
BTN : $197
SB : $376
BB : $637.40

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $8</font>, Hero calls, BTN folds, <font color="#cc0000">SB raises to $34</font>, BB folds, UTG folds, Hero calls ($26).

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($78, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets $50</font>, Hero ...


SB is a 2+2er, (I'm not gonna out you), his 3bet% is about 6% so I expect him to be squeezing here a little bit, certainly AK, maybe AQ.

Note that I actually beat AK and AQ already, we're about 180 BB deep which is why I called preflop.

Do you call or raise now? If you call what's the plan for the turn? My image should be nitty, but I'm guessing he probably won't fold an overpair (?)

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

not really a huge fan of pf but whatever.

if you raise, your not folding to a shove obv.

how does he view you? is your ranging range here strictly a set/straight/combo draw?

i think you should have decent FE vs. a overpair w. your image. i wouldnt mind making it like 130.

Re: 67s deep vs 2+2er RR ; good flop
 

166

Re: 67s deep vs 2+2er RR ; good flop
 

wtf w/ pf?
I like calling here. Your hand looks like a mid pair or a tricky overpair. If he has overs he's gonna check turn and you can take it down. If he bets again on turn I probably just call.
Raising flop is ok too I guess. We have mad equity and it's not that big a deal if he pushes us in (we're ahead). Just variance.

edit: bah, i'm leaning toward raising big. If he's any good he could probably lay down an overpair since we're deep.
I don't think either play is wrong.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

i dont really like pf, but you're pretty deep with position so its not too bad.

also, if i raise this flop im making it around 175 (intending to call a shove obv). imo a decent 2+2'er will probably be uncomfortable felting an overpair this deep, especially given your nitty image. even if he does shove you're flipping with an overpair.

Re: 67s deep vs 2+2er RR ; good flop
 

Fold preflop.

As played call here. Bet most turns if checked to.

You can make it $170 too but I think the same hands fold to a turn bet that fold to a flop raise.

Re: 67s deep vs 2+2er RR ; good flop
 

I like a raise to 155 or so, although I don't mind calling and planning to bet or jam his lead on the turn.

If you think you have no fold equity against his overpairs, which he'll lead blank turns, then I'm not sure what to do if we just call flop and turn happens to blank and he leads, so in that case a flop raise and coin flip is probably better.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

88/77 look like they're in the middle of your range if he reads hands well.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

137

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

You have to raise flop, and raise big. Call a shove obv. This is the flop you were looking for and you have good equity against his range. If you just call and turn blanks you will find yourself in a tough spot when/if he bets. I like tubasteves suggestion. $166. Thats my 2 cents.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

i like calling because you take it down more on the turn unimproved than if you raise the flop and he just calls

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

I think most hands that would fold to a turn bet/raise will also fold to a flop raise, unless turn is an ace or a king.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

Can you get 3bet % to show up on PAHUD?

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

also i don't get what you mean by outting him. without his screen name in the post you're not revealing who he is.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

i think calling would be pretty bad here. if you flop a set, im assuming that you're raising this drawheavy flop pretty much always. and a good player would note that. raising it up looks good. $160 or so.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

Raise here is good because you're actually putting money in while ahead, and not when your equity drops tremendously (such as on a blank turn). Consider a pretty bad scenario anyway: you call and a non-diamond Ace or King hits, what then :X (assuming he has AK ofc). Essentially this is a raise because chances are he probably has a big pair anyways and will felt while you still have massive equity.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

If you have a tight image you should be able to call here and shove over his bet on the turn, or call here, check the turn, and shove pretty much any river if he bets (regardless of if you hit)

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

[ QUOTE ]
If you have a tight image you should be able to call here and shove over his bet on the turn, or call here, check the turn, and shove pretty much any river if he bets (regardless of if you hit)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah I was thinking calling and shoving the turn looks super strong and is more likely to fold out QQ-KK as well as get more money from them when they fold. Of course that only works if he bets like half pot or so on the turn so that I can put in a big enough raise to get a fold.

Obviously raising the flop can't be bad cuz my equity is fine no matter what. For those saying raise, is it primarily because you think he might fold QQ+ ? If you were raised on a board like this would you really fold an overpair? It seems to me that nobody folds a pair these days in RR pots, but people do generally play more scared/cautious when deep cuz they don't want to lose their profits.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

I dont think he ever folds an overpair here. Maybee QQ. He will prob fold TT-99 and Ax hands. But the pot is big already and worth winning. You don't want to give a free card to hit A or K or a bigger flush and if the flush hits you might not get too much out of QQ+ after you have called the flop (repping a FD). IF he has an overpair you are in a tough spot 3 times out of 4 on turn where you might have to put in more money in the pot with much less equity. Now is the time to do it. IF he has a set well ... let's call it variance.

Edit: Also, playing it fast is a good balancing play for your sets that you will prob play the same.

Re: Deep vs 2+2er ; good flop
 

minraiseaments(almost)