Two Plus Two Newer Archives - Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

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Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

I thought this was an interesting hand because I perhaps played it poorly. I think three of the streets are somewhat questionable (well, atleast a topic of conversation) and for near 100bb stacks, this is unusual for me [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Also, it deals with a villain this forum has some history with (more so in HSNL) Al Krux.

So, the game just started, Sauce123 and I lobbied for them to start a new 2500 max since we were roughly #11 and 12 on the list and had no chance of getting into the main game. We got our wish, so the 2nd table ran with 8 people. Al Krux is one seat on my left. My reads: He is a loose player and not particularly good. The read the forum has on him (see other hands with him) are somewhat close to accurate, so his preflop range is very wide. He functions like a limit player, since he plays mainly limit, and imo has not made the proper transitions/adjustments. (Ie checkraises in TERRIBLE spots, raises the flop in TERRIBLE spots, etc.) He is a very nice guy though. He thinks I am insane - I knocked him out of the 1k tournament the previous day, and prior to me knocking him out he said that I was too reckless! (lol, coming from him)

The effective stacks are 2.5k, since that is the cap and what he and I bought in for. So, he open limps UTG+1, button overlimps, SB completes, and I check the BB with K2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

So, no questions there, that sets the stage. The game is also raked 4/pot, which is "meh," and this is a bad digression. SO:

Flop (76) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] I lead for 60 after the BB checks, he calls, the other 2 fold. For me this is an auto lead in a limped pot, obviously no real discussion here but if someone thinks checkraising or checkcalling (lol) is superior I'm obviously welcome to hearing that.

Turn (~200) 3x, I lead for 135. He makes it 400.

Ok, wtf? I tanked here, prior to that I pretty much bet in rhythm (I act very quickly) so it was obvious this threw me off, because my read on him was the same read any of you would have. On the flop he should have any PP, any 7, flushdraw, and of course 77/A2/33 somewhat flashed in my mind. But now he raises - decision 1: 3bet or call?
In my head even though he thinks I'm crazy, and he could be doing the limit player raise for cheap showdown with a 7, he never ever calls a 3bet with that. At the moment I thought that was his most likely hand.

Also, although he's loose, since he's in EP, he simply doesnt have Q2-52 here. He could have 42 or K2, but not too many deuces I dominate. Also, if he was going to get aggro, he'd normally raise the flop, right? What exactly is his range?

I decided to call, but i wasnt sure I was going to check the river or donk out, but I was maybe folding on a spade and checkpushing a king.

River (almost 1k) it pairs the 3, not a spade, I check, and he oddly bets 1700.

Again, decision 2; if he bets pot or less it's an obv call, but the hand is just so weird. So... Should I call? Keep in mind I'm splitting with any 2, and 3x just sucked out on me bigtime. I'll say what I did and why in a bit, hopefully this is a good post.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

i would call turn bobbo so ur hand isnt like so face up. i think river is a call although i can see him having 77 or 72 here a lot.

can he have something like a3ss or 34ss?

man... blah idk make ur image insane and say im going to flip a coin and then call or fold then he will go nuts [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

CALL THIS FAST! lOOKS LIKE HE'S REPPING A FLUSH DRAW OR 9 HIGH

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

i also like to call cos u dont have to show your hand.

turn is whatever, i can definitely understand not 3-betting cos he has to have trips+ which seems unliekly unless its 77/33

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

i like your turn reasoning and would call the river as played

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

fold the river, he has 77 and knows you have a deuce or a busted flush draw, so he may as well go for a big score. if he was bluffing, he'd bet much smaller into that range of hands.

as for the earlier streets, i'm in favor of all as played.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

meh to be honest sounds like an easy calldown after turn bet (def tank on turn/river liek you dont think your mediocre hand is good.)

[ QUOTE ]
fold the river, he has 77 and knows you have a deuce or a busted flush draw, so he may as well go for a big score. if he was bluffing, he'd bet much smaller into that range of hands.

as for the earlier streets, i'm in favor of all as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

mmmkay I guess my post wasnt great. oh well. i thoguht for a while and my process was the same as dj sensei's. im not one to make big folds v often (especially FULL HOUSES) but basically on the river his hand is 33 (yah right) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 77 2x or a busted flush draw. (hell, wouldnt put it past for him to have 32) if he could have a busted flush draw, he could have the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] since it means he's aggro enough to raise the turn w/ that.

i would've called against someone my own age, but when it boiled down to it, i just reverted to rule 1, which is when old people put alot of money into the pot, you need the nuts or 2nd nuts to call them. so i folded. (plus, the price he laid me made it bad if i was either splitting to 2x or losing, 1700 to technically win 500...)

he showed KJ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

I call for the following reasons;

Your hand is fairly transparent.

He overbet the river.

He can have a worse deuce a lot of the time.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
I call for the following reasons;

Your hand is fairly transparent.

He overbet the river.

He can have a worse deuce a lot of the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

you do realize 2x is a split? if its not a 3 or 7 his bluff doesnt work. as it was, it did..

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

bobbo, maybe its possible with your turn call he puts you on a wider range than just a 2

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

dud u godafull ouse callnw

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

dude u got a full house call now

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
dude u got a full house call now

[/ QUOTE ]

You make good reads.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold the river, he has 77 and knows you have a deuce or a busted flush draw, so he may as well go for a big score. if he was bluffing, he'd bet much smaller into that range of hands.

as for the earlier streets, i'm in favor of all as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

mmmkay I guess my post wasnt great. oh well. i thoguht for a while and my process was the same as dj sensei's. im not one to make big folds v often (especially FULL HOUSES) but basically on the river his hand is 33 (yah right) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 77 2x or a busted flush draw. (hell, wouldnt put it past for him to have 32) if he could have a busted flush draw, he could have the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] since it means he's aggro enough to raise the turn w/ that.

i would've called against someone my own age, but when it boiled down to it, i just reverted to rule 1, which is when old people put alot of money into the pot, you need the nuts or 2nd nuts to call them. so i folded. (plus, the price he laid me made it bad if i was either splitting to 2x or losing, 1700 to technically win 500...)

he showed KJ[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

sucks when not only do you lose the pot, but you can't tell if it was because he was a level above or a level below the one you put him on.

not joking here, 2p2 sucks so much. DJ sensei, you're the man, the rest of you, try to post something meaningful, rather then junk.

[ QUOTE ]
sucks when not only do you lose the pot, but you can't tell if it was because he was a level above or a level below the one you put him on.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just played it badly, I'm allowed a misplay every day or so. It's a call, but oh well. Afterall, I have a full house.

bobbo,

given description of villain and the way you played the hand this seems like an auto-call. i think that's why you have gotten poor responses.

I think tanking on the turn is a mistake. The turn is a fairly standard call, I would say, especially since he limped utg+1.

For all he knows you have A7 or 88.

As played, it doesn't make much sense for him to overbet the river after you tank the turn. Tanking the turn just doesn't make much sense with 77, a boat or 2x.

Because of this, I would say that a call is closer than otherwise.

I dont see how bebo played it that bad, i mean when he leads out on flop his range is 7x,2x and maybe XsXs. But when he leads the turn i mean is he doing this with 7x? is he doing this with spades.

Villian must put him on a strong hand, Id fold the river.

[ QUOTE ]
it doesn't make much sense for him to overbet the river after you tank the turn. Tanking the turn just doesn't make much sense with 77, a boat or 2x.

[/ QUOTE ]

So what you are saying is that villain is more likely to overbet the pot if hero is likely to have a monster (boat) here?

Do you put him on quads?

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
fold the river, he has 77 and knows you have a deuce or a busted flush draw, so he may as well go for a big score. if he was bluffing, he'd bet much smaller into that range of hands.

as for the earlier streets, i'm in favor of all as played.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah but hes not smart enough for this to apply.

edit: haha results prove me right, what a moran!

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

I woulf [censored] with him on the turn and make it like 1000

edit: maybe not, that actually gives a flush draw proper odds. but I really hate just calling the turn and I hate pushing. I def. wanna reraise. If I had been making some small 3 bets (which I do a good amount in my game) then id pull it out here. If not id just push.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

Bobbo,

When I read the post, the main spot in this hand was what your range of him was and HOW LIGHT he was willing to call with it. This would justify a turn call or raise one way or the other. Do you think he will call/shove with a FD? How about A7s? If the answer is no, then I think you played the hand perfectly. But a main factor in this hand is image of you. You're a reckless young punk in his eyes which significantly widens his calling range. Whether or not enough to make a hero call here is what needs to be deciphered.

DJ,

Your level comment is right on.

1150 on the turn

as played call river

I wouldn't reraise the turn because his most likely hands as an UTG limper are big spades or A2s or 77. So you're crushed by his range that gives you action on a reraise, and you're deep enough that reverse implied odds become an issue.

As for the hand - my general rule of thumb is... if the guy is an assclown and I can only put him on one reasonable hand that beats me (77), he's bluffing too often to fold. So I call.

just wanted to chime in one more thing, (was telling vanessa this on aim) the other reason i opted not to call is if i called and lost, id have to go back to my room for more money, and i was feeling like i didnt want to walk back there. meh, take it for what it's worth.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

I'd call river very quickly live, he is representing one better hand pretty much, obv 33 is pretty remote here. Your description of him making a lot of bad flop raises and stuff means he could easily play a flush draw like this, or a 2x hand we split with. Your image is also one that promotes weaker players to come after you, so that also makes me call here.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

think i fold as played.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold the river, he has 77 and knows you have a deuce or a busted flush draw, so he may as well go for a big score. if he was bluffing, he'd bet much smaller into that range of hands.

[/ QUOTE ]lol

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah my thoughts on this post as well.

this is falling into an easy trap dan - thinking as you would think and then applying that depth of thought to joeretardolivepoker. just dont work like that.

Re: Maybe interesting hand, live TS, 10/20.

hmmm...as played I definitely call the river since you showed weakness in only calling his turn raise. I prolly would have 3-bet the turn here in case he was raising with something like 54s. But, the huge overbet on the rvier does not necessarily mean a huge hand. In fact, often it is a bluff with a busted flush and his only chance to win the pot. You yourself said he made big moves in strange spots...I think this qulaifies.