WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

Have you guys stopped and read the PETA homepage? These are not stuff people make up about them, it's actually on THEIR PAGE:

“How can you justify spending your time helping animals when there are so many people who need help?”

PETA-Helping animals is not any more or less important than helping human beings


Read LOTS more insane ideas here:
http://www.peta.com/about/faq.asp

How can anyone with a brain endorse this organization? They are one of the best funded charities on the world with millions in revenue. stop donating you fools

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

In summary, what they are basically saying is that a man, a dog, and even an INSECT are the same, should be treated equal, and have the same rights, and they compare stepping on an ant to running over a person. Read the site and you will see just how crazy they are.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
They are one of the best funded charities on the world

[/ QUOTE ]
false

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
they compare stepping on an ant to running over a person

[/ QUOTE ]
fact: both involve harm being done to living things!

[x] OP responding to his own OP is lame

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

I actually agree with some of it, but certainly not all of it. I'm in between. I recognize animal's rights, but only to the extent that humans do in fact come first. I mean, we're carnivores, and at the top of the food chain, so I can find little wrong with eating animals. Although I think they should be slaughtered in the most humane manner possible. Ditto with clothing. We're in a technological age where there are just too many alternatives to animal skins/furs, or parts. So yes, I'm willing to buy a nice looking belt made of some other fabric than animal hide, if that saves the needless killing of an animal.

On the other hand, I sometimes like unkown animals more than unkown humans. I abhore hunting for sport. In fact, if a hunter looking to bag a big rhino as a trophy were to get killed by the rhino, I'm perfectly ok with that! Seriously... If I could watch the hunt, I would actually be rooting for the rhino to kill the hunter! I've heard of several instances where hunters were killed or maimed by their prey and I always have a good laugh at that. I wish it would happen more often!

I should say that if a hunter eats what he kills, I can tolerate it. But I'd still be rooting for some mishap where the hunter shoots himself or his gun jams and the animal kills him.

I like animals and respect their place along side the human animal in the world.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

for one thing, you might kill someone by mistake that didn't actually do anything wrong.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly not, if you choose that as an individual expression of justice. Probably better to isolate them and let them "Kilkenny cat" themselves.

But if you can render judgments with a probability of 1, as stated in reply above, then I guess you're qualified, aren't you.

Thing is, I don't think there's anybody on this planet, human or otherwise, that can make this judgment yet. Willing to be convinced otherwise.

It should be implied that if an individual or a collection of individuals are capable of creating those situations where perfectly correct judgments can be carried out, they also have the ability to create situations where the individual or individuals in question with regards to bring harm to cats, and crimes of that sort can express their inclinations without actually harming cats. They should do so, actually. It ain't a crime to build the walls.

And they end up judging themselves in the end and coming to their own resolutions. Or they perish. One needn't have a proactive hand in the process, just the ability to create scenarios where they're isolated.

But I'm repeating myself. Plz not to be harming the felines, though.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because then your moral position would be it's ok to torture and kill those who torture and kill. But if it's ok for you to do it then it's ok for the original people to do it as animals torture and kill other animals all the time.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because then your moral position would be it's ok to torture and kill those who torture and kill. But if it's ok for you to do it then it's ok for the original people to do it as animals torture and kill other animals all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure that's true. The circle needs to start somehow, and I'm not willing to start it. I only get pleasure from killing those who derive pleasure from killing helpless innocents. If they don't exist, there's nothing in it for me.

[edit:] I just noticed your last sentence, which (almost) complicates things for me, since animals DO torture and kill all the time. The difference is, they do so out of necessity and not for fun. That makes all the difference to me.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

Nah, it's only ok to torture and kill those who torture and kill for pleasure, but not the ones that are doing it only because their victims torture and kill for pleasure. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would rather kill vigilantes. Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because then your moral position would be it's ok to torture and kill those who torture and kill. But if it's ok for you to do it then it's ok for the original people to do it as animals torture and kill other animals all the time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Insert "moral agents" somewhere in there and this problem is resolved. Still, if Lestat gets to kill people so do I.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would rather kill vigilantes. Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not being a vigilante. Bringing about justice for cats is the furthest thing from my mind. I would just honestly get enjoyment from killing people with that type of mindset. I suppose if you'd honestly get enjoyment from killing a vigilante, I'd say go for it.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

<font color="blue"> Insert "moral agents" somewhere in there and this problem is resolved. Still, if Lestat gets to kill people so do I. </font>

Yes, but I think you need a reason. Certainly, a better one than; "if someone else gets to do it, so do I."

Again, I enjoy inflicting pain on those who enjoy inflicting pain upon the helpless. I feel the same way about child molesters/killers.

I'm not saying my murderous inclinations are justified by some morality, but I can at least pin my pleasure and reason for killing on *something*. Can you?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

I assume you're responding to vhawk.

btw- I never said it was ok. Only that I would enjoy doing it. Could be nothing more than my warped mind, which doesn't make it right. It's just the way I see and feel about this issue.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

i'm pretty sure cats do sometimes torture and kill "for fun." so maybe the people are torturing the cats righteously.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

"On the other hand, I sometimes like unkown animals more than unkown humans"

That is still too extreme. BUT if you take it one step further it isn't. I would much rather save the life of Alex the parrot than the typical career criminal. Even if he wasn't benefiting humans.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure cats do sometimes torture and kill "for fun." so maybe the people are torturing the cats righteously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. One of the cruelest things I ever saw in my life was a pack of hyenas ripping apart a family of baby boars from its mother. I wanted to torture those beasts to death.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
There are people who torture and kill cats for the fun of it on holloween. If we lived in a lawless society, I think it would be more fun to find the people that do this and torture and kill them.

Would I be wrong to do that? Why?

[/ QUOTE ]

There is definitely something wrong with this reasonning and I'm surprised that no one pointed it out. It's basically that your moral stance makes no senes. You've stated that you don't think that as there is anything wrong with eating meat.(let's assume that you're eating meat yourself)
If you think about it, that means that you have nothing agaisnt killing an animal for your own enjoyment, since you could be a vegetarian.
So basically you want to kill and torture people who have killed and torture a cat just for they own pleasure.
According to your ethics though, there is nothing wrong with killing a cat for fun, so the only reprehensible thing they've done is torture a being that you would have not problem killing.
Of course you can argue that it is bad ennough that they deserved to be severly punished, but given your ethics the sentence seems harsh.
Furthermore, you have to ask yourself why you have no problem killing an animal but you don't wan't him to suffer.
Since you don't want it to suffer, one can assume that he reallys feel the pain abd that he is not just a living machine, that he has a conscience..
But in that cas shouldn't you be vegetaraian?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure cats do sometimes torture and kill "for fun." so maybe the people are torturing the cats righteously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. One of the cruelest things I ever saw in my life was a pack of hyenas ripping apart a family of baby boars from its mother. I wanted to torture those beasts to death.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do people seriously ascribe animals with a moral and ethical awareness that they don't have to justify their own actions?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
In summary, what they are basically saying is that a man, a dog, and even an INSECT are the same, should be treated equal, and have the same rights,

[/ QUOTE ]
The page you linked to says precisely the opposite: "However, animals don’t always have the same rights as humans because..."

[ QUOTE ]
and they compare stepping on an ant to running over a person.

[/ QUOTE ]
Couldn't find this (or anything about insects) on that page. Link?

[ QUOTE ]
Read the site and you will see just how crazy they are.

[/ QUOTE ]
I did, and I found things like this:

[ QUOTE ]
Animals should have the right to equal consideration of their interests. For instance, a dog most certainly has an interest in not having pain inflicted on him or her unnecessarily. We are, therefore, obliged to take that interest into consideration and to respect the dog’s right not to have pain unnecessarily inflicted upon him or her.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't necessarily endorse this organization, but this seems quite reasonable and not crazy at all. I understand that there can be reasonable disagreement about this, but I don't think your criticism is justified, or particularly honest.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

This is interesting, because I never expected my views could logically right. It's just the way I instinctively felt. But you make the first attempt to systematically break it down logically. So, let's see where I'm messed up...

<font color="blue">You've stated that you don't think that as there is anything wrong with eating meat.(let's assume that you're eating meat yourself)
If you think about it, that means that you have nothing agaisnt killing an animal for your own enjoyment, since you could be a vegetarian. </font>

Hmm. I have stated (or meant to state), that I believe humans are the highest order of animal in the evolutionary food chain. Therefore, I see nothing inherently wrong with humans eating whatever animal they choose (that's not human). I suppose the dumber the animal, the better. But humans have won the food chain race. So I don't think I can logically say we can't eat another animal.

<font color="blue">o basically you want to kill and torture people who have killed and torture a cat just for they own pleasure. </font>

I suppose this is more or less correct enough that I can't argue it. I would like to be allowed the distinction between useful pleasure and senseless pleasure, however. Can I be allowed this? Should I be? Deriving use from an animal makes all the difference in the world to me. I stated that I abhor hunting, but allow for those who make some use the animal they kill. I still don't like it, since there are other ways to obtain food and clothing, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dislike someone like this who hunted. Only those who hunt without any use of the animal in mind. In other words not for practical pleasure. Therefore, I'd derive fun from torturing and killing those who tortured and killed animals for fun. Fun.... Not pleasure or use. If they got any practical use out of the animals they were torturing, it's immediately different, because I can find no "use" out of killing those people.


<font color="blue">According to your ethics though, there is nothing wrong with killing a cat for fun, so the only reprehensible thing they've done is torture a being that you would have not problem killing. </font>

Since I've outlined my position more thoroughly, I don't think this (or the rest of your response), follows. Do you still think it does? If so, let me know. I'm sure there are holes to be found. I never said this was a logical conclusion I came to. It's just the way I feel, which may be very different than being logically correct about something.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure cats do sometimes torture and kill "for fun." so maybe the people are torturing the cats righteously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even when a cat doesn't eat what it kills (and appears to be playing), this activity actually hones it's hunting skills.

And even if you want to make the case that housecats are fed and have no reason to kill, they certainly don't have the cognative ability to realize their hunting instincts are no longer needed.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
And even if you want to make the case that housecats are fed and have no reason to kill, they certainly don't have the cognative ability to realize their hunting instincts are no longer needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you've hit the nail on the head here. humans have an instinct to be psychotic killers, it's a survival instinct. But civilization requires people to sublimate this instinct, so activity like you describe is detrimental to the plan of conditioning people to live in civilization.

cliff notes: torture/murder of animals may lead to harming humans, so it is frowned upon.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
This is interesting, because I never expected my views could logically right. It's just the way I instinctively felt. But you make the first attempt to systematically break it down logically. So, let's see where I'm messed up...

[/ QUOTE ]

Just a small precision. It was very clear to me that you did not expected your view to be rationnal and that it was just the way you felt, and there certainly nithing wrong with that.
But since you asked if you were wrong in your views, I tried to break it down logically because it made more sense than to argue about your ethics. Your view coul only be wrong if they were in contradiction with your beliefs, not with mine.

[ QUOTE ]
Hmm. I have stated (or meant to state), that I believe humans are the highest order of animal in the evolutionary food chain. Therefore, I see nothing inherently wrong with humans eating whatever animal they choose (that's not human). I suppose the dumber the animal, the better. But humans have won the food chain race. So I don't think I can logically say we can't eat another animal.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're speaking about the food chain race. The basis of the food chain is necessity. Predators eat to survive. Since we are at the top of the food chain we can eat whatever we want, including animals. But the problem is that we don't need to eat animals to survive; We do it because we can, Your justification seems to imply that are justified in killing animals just because we are at the top, not because we can. If it gives us a right of life and death; there notinh wrong about killing cats at Halloween.
Of course all this reasoning is voided if you need to eat an animal to survive.
That's why there is definitely an ethical problem. Either the life or an animal is worthless to us and we can kill him
so our meal tastes better, or his life matters. I guess you could introduc degrees but in matter a life, it could be tricky.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

<font color="blue">cliff notes: torture/murder of animals may lead to harming humans, so it is frowned upon. </font>

I think this may be very true. I used to know this kid who liked to set cats on fire. This girl we both knew said it was only a matter of time before he "graduated" to killing humans. Sure enough, he beat a guy to death by the age of 19.

You either value life, or you do not. I may very well be a hypocrite for eating meat. I try and justify it by making the distinction of getting "use" from the animal that had to die so I could eat it. But I admit that might be weak.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose this is more or less correct enough that I can't argue it. I would like to be allowed the distinction between useful pleasure and senseless pleasure, however. Can I be allowed this? Should I be? Deriving use from an animal makes all the difference in the world to me. I stated that I abhor hunting, but allow for those who make some use the animal they kill. I still don't like it, since there are other ways to obtain food and clothing, but I wouldn't go out of my way to dislike someone like this who hunted. Only those who hunt without any use of the animal in mind. In other words not for practical pleasure. Therefore, I'd derive fun from torturing and killing those who tortured and killed animals for fun. Fun.... Not pleasure or use. If they got any practical use out of the animals they were torturing, it's immediately different, because I can find no "use" out of killing those people.

[/ QUOTE ]
I see where you can find the distinction. In one case you have fun because of your of the death of the cat and in the other because of what you can make out of the death of this cat.
I see two main objections with that. First, the distinction is shallow. You can argue that the hunter does not hunt for the pleasure that killing gives him, but for the pleasure that hunting gives him. It's can be seen as a fun outdoorsy activity. Look paintball is fun! Why not hunting? It's the same, except for the fact that you have to find the animal. And you get a trophy to bring home. Why would the death of an animal be acceptable when it brings you the a full day of fun as opposed with just eating a couple a steck or buying a new fur. In both cases the death of the animal has a similar purpose. The case of the tortured cat is a little different as it takes a deranged mind to torture animals as a hobby. But bassically, the result is the same. You get a kick of the death of an animal, just like your wife gets a kick of a new fur.
Second, let's suppose that you can ake this distinction. The fact that you accept the case of usefull pleasure proves that you don't think the life of an animal is worth very much. So it is diffcult to understand the harshness of your reaction when you encounter people who value it slightly less.

And as was poited by others, there is definitely a question of anthropomorphism, you might think taht the cat feels just like you that why ihe should not be tortured.
What do you think of people who torture and kill a beetles?
Should they be tortured and put to death? If not, Why? What is the difference with a cat and how do you determine it?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure cats do sometimes torture and kill "for fun." so maybe the people are torturing the cats righteously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even when a cat doesn't eat what it kills (and appears to be playing), this activity actually hones it's hunting skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, you said cats don't torture and kill for fun. they clearly do. it doesn't matter if there's a good reason the cat enjoys it.

[ QUOTE ]
And even if you want to make the case that housecats are fed and have no reason to kill, they certainly don't have the cognative ability to realize their hunting instincts are no longer needed.

[/ QUOTE ]

that doesn't make the slightest difference. they're not killing because they value their hunting skills.

note: i'm just being nitty over details of fact, i don't actually apply morality to cat behavior.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

Right, I'm being rather nitty myself. My point is that "play" has been shown to aide an animal in it's survival. I think I read somewhere that the only animal that does not engage in play is a reptile. They are just born ready for the world. All other animals play in order to hone the skills needed for survival.

So the cat gets"use" from the act of batting a mouse back and forth to death, even if it doesn't eat it. My big thing is "use". If you get use out of killing an animal, I can't begrudge that. Even if I don't agree with it, or I wouldn't do it (such as hunting).

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Right, I'm being rather nitty myself. My point is that "play" has been shown to aide an animal in it's survival. I think I read somewhere that the only animal that does not engage in play is a reptile. They are just born ready for the world. All other animals play in order to hone the skills needed for survival.

So the cat gets"use" from the act of batting a mouse back and forth to death, even if it doesn't eat it. My big thing is "use". If you get use out of killing an animal, I can't begrudge that. Even if I don't agree with it, or I wouldn't do it (such as hunting).

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, but (i suppose) the cat is "aware" that it's having fun but unaware of any other "use."

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i'm pretty sure cats do sometimes torture and kill "for fun." so maybe the people are torturing the cats righteously.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. One of the cruelest things I ever saw in my life was a pack of hyenas ripping apart a family of baby boars from its mother. I wanted to torture those beasts to death.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do people seriously ascribe animals with a moral and ethical awareness that they don't have to justify their own actions?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think many people lack moral and ethical awareness and become animals.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

We can basically eat what we want. We can easily get by not eating any meat. Eating meat instead of other protein sources is basically a choice made for the sake of pleasure. "Fun" would not be the right word, but the principle is close to being the same. So why is it worse to hunt for fun than to support torturous living conditions for the pleasure of eating meat?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
We can basically eat what we want. We can easily get by not eating any meat. Eating meat instead of other protein sources is basically a choice made for the sake of pleasure. "Fun" would not be the right word, but the principle is close to being the same. So why is it worse to hunt for fun than to support torturous living conditions for the pleasure of eating meat?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good question and one that I'm probably conflicted with. I do think "fun" without use, is different than "pleasure" with use. Is it different enough to support my position? I don't know.

I'd also like to know whether eating meat at all is conflicting with my feelings. I don't think I'd ever be the one to cattle prod the cow I get my steak from. So if I can't pull the trigger, do I deserve to eat meat just because someone else does the dirty work (dirty work that I'm not willing to do myself)?

I imagine there are a lot of people like me, who wouldn't be willing to actually kill the animal they were about to eat.

Maybe I'll become a vegetarian because of this thread. All I know is that people who are inhumane to animals sicken me. To the point where I'd like to inflict upon them what they inflict upon the animals they mistreat. Maybe this really is important enough for me to get my morals, ethics, and logical consistency straight. I know it's conflicted now.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine there are a lot of people like me, who wouldn't be willing to actually kill the animal they were about to eat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, in this era, that stuff is pretty much subcontracted and it's much easier for the consumer to just load up a cart and go.

That wasn't always the case, and the margins in which this safety net would be removed are always narrower than they seem. I don't think it means you should proactively practice selective elimination for this particular reason or for moral motivations alone.

Even though it is part of the basic instincts of primal man to hunt, maim, kill and feed on the weaker, maybe humanity has begun to evolve past that a little bit. It's not always easy to tell considering the sheer volume of warfare and killing that still goes on. Along with baseless, senseless cruelty for entertainment purposes.

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe I'll become a vegetarian because of this thread. All I know is that people who are inhumane to animals sicken me. To the point where I'd like to inflict upon them what they inflict upon the animals they mistreat. Maybe this really is important enough for me to get my morals, ethics, and logical consistency straight. I know it's conflicted now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't blame you. I feel much the same way actually. I wouldn't put off meat because of such considerations if I were you, though. To be able to understand and share in the moral culpability of protecting the defenseless and relatively innocent is admirable and shows a lot of maturity, truly.

Perhaps consider that you have finally determined, or started to realize the moral price you pay every time you pick up a steak and toss it in the cart without an afterthought.

The harder lesson is to realize that the process in which justice is meted out with regards to people who do evil things... (Evil is subjective, but I think there's a common morality that exists with its own set of variant criteria)

It is that it cannot be a valuation and judgment that you should carry out individually in today's society, at least not as a passive civilian. Sure, the system's flawed, it sucks, and most days I'd probably be a step ahead of you in delivering the same judgments you seem to want to express on the inherently evil.

And that's fine as a thought experiment, as it gives you a deeper understanding of why such judgments must be collective rather than individual. Having the strength to stop yourself from moving from thoughts to actions is something that would carry far more respect, especially self-respect.

But consider this if you return to your original assertions, Lestat:

If you anoint yourself as the ultimate judge in the eradication of evil, your odyssey would be infinite and solitary. And in time you'd have to realize you have to kill every sentient being on this planet, at least the ones that are capable of complex expression of their own sentience.

What use would be existence then if you are the only individual aware of such calculations and you take away others' capability to do so?

It's too dangerous. Best to hunt well within and watch what goes on without. Purity without flaw is a shallow beauty in its own realm. It's not necessary.

GL with the process. You'll learn to draw comfort from it in time and enjoy it for what it is.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
I do think "fun" without use, is different than "pleasure" with use. Is it different enough to support my position? I don't know.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't disagree. There does seem to be something less reprehensible about killing for food or "use" as you put it. I just thought I'd throw that idea out there.
I do think that factory farming conditions are so bad that meat (and even eggs and dairy) are very hard to ethically justify.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Have you guys stopped and read the PETA homepage? These are not stuff people make up about them, it's actually on THEIR PAGE:

“How can you justify spending your time helping animals when there are so many people who need help?”

PETA-Helping animals is not any more or less important than helping human beings


Read LOTS more insane ideas here:
http://www.peta.com/about/faq.asp

How can anyone with a brain endorse this organization? They are one of the best funded charities on the world with millions in revenue. stop donating you fools

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't see one thing crazy about that webpage. However, I found your rant to be lunacy.

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

I completely reject the idea that animals should have "rights".

To be given a right whether you're a dog or Canadian person, you need to accept reponsibilities that go along with that right.

Somebody please show me how an animal can accept a responsibility?

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

They may seem like crackpots, but still, you may want to watch this:

http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video....amp;speed=_med

(Warning: Some people's sensitivity may be affected by these images.)


Anyway, this shows there's unnecesary pain, I mean I don't think it's all the same if you're a human or animal, but this is ridiculous. How can a sane person do this to a sentient being?

I'm all up for animal research, but this is disgusting... And it's all just so people can wear that [censored]? cmon...

Re: WOW, PETA people really are crazy!
 

[ QUOTE ]
Somebody please show me how an animal can accept a responsibility?

[/ QUOTE ]

First you show how a newborn human can accept responsibility.