10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

i frequent the 10/20 (sometimes 10/25) donkfest at fallsview casino whenever i'm not too lazy to make the drive out from toronto. recently, this hand went down against a regular whose a super tight nit whose almost totally incapable of making moves and a big time fish. the only time i've ever seen nitty villain come close to a bluff was when he flopped a royal draw and pushed to a re-raise. effective stacks are 4.5k... villain raises UTG to $100, massive fish calls in MP, i'm in the BB with 88... i call. flop comes Q 8 2... two hearts. i check, villain bets out $300, donk checks his hole cards, and calls, i call with the intention of smashing a non heart turn... turn is a 2...i check, villain checks, donk checks. river is a is a 4 of hearts. i bet out $800... villain raises to $2800... fish cake calls... i sit there and think wtf, confused as hell. thoughts please.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

So only 1200 left behind? Just push.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

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So only 1200 left behind? Just push.

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no...on the river i have ~$3300 after i bet out the $800... so calling the 2k raise is pretty pointless. this is effectively a decision for the rest of my stack.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

I c/r this flop like always if you have an aggro image, but w/e, calling here can't be too bad either. As for the hand....eerrrrrr....weird spot. Pretty obvious other guy has a flush and probably wont fold for another 1200, but the nit makes things really complicated IMO. Do you think he checks QQ on the turn here?? I ask because some people will always bet the turn with qq and some will always check. This is a pretty [censored] up spot because I just can't see villian doing this without QQ or the nut flush. I dunno I probably just say [censored] it and push but I don't think flatting all that terrible.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

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So only 1200 left behind? Just push.

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no...on the river i have ~$3300 after i bet out the $800... so calling the 2k raise is pretty pointless. this is effectively a decision for the rest of my stack.

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Calling the river is already assumed. The only decision is the raise your last $1300 and since you will be laying such sweet odds and fish is in hand just push.

If you are thinking of folding, well I am not sure what to say.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

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So only 1200 left behind? Just push.

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no...on the river i have ~$3300 after i bet out the $800... so calling the 2k raise is pretty pointless. this is effectively a decision for the rest of my stack.

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Go all in and run to the bar immediately after he instacalls with QQ.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

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If you are thinking of folding, well I am not sure what to say.

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you really don't think a fold is an option here? this is an instacall/push for the extra ~$1300??

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

You're 200+bbs deeps and decide to play the way the makes the least and makes your hand super obvious. good job.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

i dont think hes checking QQ on the turn with the flushdraw out, if yes you still have to pay it off - a flush is much more likely, we can disregard the possibility the idiot has you beat i think...

but still you want to get your stack in on the flop or at least at the turn so play your hand accordingly

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

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i dont think hes checking QQ on the turn with the flushdraw out, if yes you still have to pay it off - a flush is much more likely, we can disregard the possibility the idiot has you beat i think...

but still you want to get your stack in on the flop or at least at the turn so play your hand accordingly

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ummm...the turn paired the board.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

and you think they fold their flushdraws on a paired board when u bet 1/2 pot or something? i dont.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

I saw the title of this thread and was like "oh, sweet, a thread in HSNL that sounds like it might actually have some hand discussion." Then I clicked on it and now that I am back from throwing up I am posting this.

IF YOU ARE SO GODDAMN SURE THE NIT HAS QQ OR 22 THEN JUST CALL AND PAT YOURSELF ON THE [censored] BACK. BLAH! but your entire line sucks

and not that it matters live, but since you know this nit then it SHOULD matter, but METAGAME: WTF other hands are you checking every street and donking this river with?

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i call with the intention of smashing a non heart turn... turn is a 2...i check

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[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I'm more confused than you were when you played the hand so I'll stfu now.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

Why would you not raise the flop?
Why would you check the turn?

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

wtf? push...if he has QQ head over to sundowners for some relaxation therapy.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

If he's a true nit, then you're beat. A true nit's UTG raise range is usually something along the lines of JJ+, AK. Secondly, a true nit doesn't bet his draws, because he's a nit, and he's scared to bet draws, so that rules out AKh. Thirdly, a true nit doesn't raise into two people on the river in this spot without at least the second nuts, which is precisely what he has. So, unless you think you can bluff him off his queens full by reppin quad deuces (lol... just how nitty is he?), why make this call?

So, if you trust your read of his nittiness 100%, then you can fold. If you think there's a chance that he's not a total nit, that maybe you don't have a 100% read on him or can't be totally certain of his unrelenting tightness, that there's some chance greater than zero that he's on AKh with this line, then you can move in and cross your fingers.

As for the hand on the whole, you really could have been a little more aggressive somewhere along the way. Either check-raising the flop or leading out on the turn, or leading out much larger into the river, knowing that the fish probably just hit a flush and will call your pot+ value bet. You may have ended up just as pwnt in the end, but at least the decisions would have been easier.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

Muck. It's obvious villain has QQ why? The fish just overcalled with the nut flush, meaning the villain can't have the nut flush because the fish has it, so the villain must have QQ.

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

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i call with the intention of smashing a non heart turn... turn is a 2...i check

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this quote is so awesome

Re: 10/20 live, mid set facing river raise from super tight nit
 

call

i would raise the flop btw