I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

The villain raises 10% of hands preflop. His aggression factor is 1.44. Don't tell me to fold on the turn, because I already know that's what I should have done if I decide to fold.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP ($328.40)
Button ($520)
SB ($396)
DCal Zone ($406)
UTG ($412.40)

Preflop: DCal Zone is BB with 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $16</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, DCal Zone calls $12.

Flop: ($34) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
DCal Zone checks, MP checks.

Turn: ($34) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">DCal Zone bets $28</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to $80</font>, DCal Zone calls $52.

River: ($194) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
DCal Zone checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets $232.4 (All-In)</font>, DCal Zone folds.

Final Pot: $-38.40
</font>

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

everyone is right

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

why

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me to fold on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would anyone in their right mind tell you this?

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't tell me to fold on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would anyone in their right mind tell you this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because calling the turn and folding the river is bad. I should've made the decision on the turn and went with that. Was spewy IMO to call on the turn if I'm going to fold on the river.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

this is very bad. I'd be shoving the turn all day.

The only hand that youre worried about is KK, if he could have AA he could easily have AK

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

This is really bad.

Bet the flop please, it's not late 2003 anymore, we lead out with big hands now.

Three bet the turn. Call the river, AK/AQ are here as often as AA/KK. If you lose, move this over to BBV.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
this is very bad. I'd be shoving the turn all day.

The only hand that youre worried about is KK, if he could have AA he could easily have AK

[/ QUOTE ]

AA is different than AK to me. I don't think he'd check the flop with AK because he'd try to get value from worss Ax's. People check the flop with AA because he's like "well I can't get value, I need to check and let him catch up."

Even if you are right and the only hand I am worried about is KK, what hands am I beating? Keep in mind his AF is 1.44 and he never bluffs.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

wowwowwo. ok if you don't like your hand if you get raised on the turn solution is check call next two streets. it's sick but what else can you do??

1.44, checks this flop, basically minraises turn and never bluffs? i would just puke and check call.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

open fold flop.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

OP is leveling ldo

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
wowwowwo. ok if you don't like your hand if you get raised on the turn solution is check call next two streets. it's sick but what else can you do??

[/ QUOTE ]

I folded because I didn't want to call a bet when I am losing.

[ QUOTE ]
1.44, checks this flop, basically minraises turn and never bluffs? i would just puke and check call.

[/ QUOTE ]

That seems like a leak!

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

Also, I am one of the spewiest players on pokerstars. I am trying to fix that, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious I was losing here.

My reasoning:

He's not bluffing
He bets the flop with AK and prob AQ
He'd bet the flop with 22
He'd never shove the river for value with AQ

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I am one of the spewiest players on pokerstars. I am trying to fix that, and I'm pretty sure it's obvious I was losing here.

My reasoning:

He's not bluffing
He bets the flop with AK and prob AQ
He'd bet the flop with 22
He'd never shove the river for value with AQ

[/ QUOTE ]

making this fold is extremely read specific, if you have a good enough read to make the above assumptions there is really no point in posting this hand. if your read is only as good as you gave in the op this is an easy all-in.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

think about the hands taht are shoving the river d cal.. they include K two pairs and even high aces.

those are hands you're beating. you have more hands that you're are beating given the action, so call.

hell, because of your flop check, lets put rando hands in there too.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

You called preflop with 44. Please name for us five boards you feel comfortable getting it in with this betting action by the river, with a single 4 on board.

Take 44 out of the playbook if you can't get it in here.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

Don't fold your set for 100bbs on a board like this.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

yeah you can't fold this

that being said i folded KK pf yesterday for 100bb sup

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

well at first i thought you sucked too, but the more i look at the hand the more i think its a good laydown. You beat 3 things AK, 22 and pure bluff. I doubt he will check 22 on the flop or AK. i think you made a good laydown man, sick but good.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

however i would never fold this unless I have seen the guy play for a very long time.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

[ QUOTE ]
everyone is right

[/ QUOTE ]

in my experience, many players are very suspicious when you lead the turn after the flop goes check check. it causes a lot of people to bluffraise you, and not all these people will give up on teh river when called on the turn.

also, wtf clubs missed cawl plz.

edit: as somebody else said, if you can't felt this, maybe you shouldn't be playing 44

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
You called preflop with 44. Please name for us five boards you feel comfortable getting it in with this betting action by the river, with a single 4 on board.

Take 44 out of the playbook if you can't get it in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

couldn't have said it better

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
think about the hands taht are shoving the river d cal.. they include K two pairs and even high aces.

those are hands you're beating. you have more hands that you're are beating given the action, so call.

hell, because of your flop check, lets put rando hands in there too.

[/ QUOTE ]

my bad, i thought the OP had A4... not 44.

this is even worse than i originally thought.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

You are thinking way too much. There is some very simple math for this, actually.

Set + 100BB deep = ARRR IN

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

Interestingly enough few mentioned the possibility of missed clubs (although there aren't many club hands that Villain can have given image). Even more reason to snapcall here.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

I can't believe that you folded this. He probably had AK, though Ak would bet the flop. Is that why you are thinking so much into this hand? What made you think that hea had AA or KK?

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

This is AK like 600% of the time, yes?

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

this is a great spot to practice your fist-pump.

u srsly folded? oh man.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

i fold sets sometimes. i just dont post on 2+2 for advice, because I know I will get told I am wrong. So just make big folds and feel good about them, just dont tell anyone.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

I don't think this guy ever shows up with missed clubs here or AQ/AJ. He has AK/AA/KK every time here. But to echo what others have said, you shouldn't be playing this hand if you're going to fold when you flop a set, and this situation is so opponent specific it's hard to get a good answer here. Generally, these I fold a set for 100BB threads are just gonna get WTF responses. As for the hand, you're toast on the river usually, but I'd call just because he can have AK.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

Sure, he can have AK, KK or AA, but how often is what matters.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
But to echo what others have said, you shouldn't be playing this hand if you're going to fold when you flop a set,

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idk if the fold is good or not but IMO this advice is nonsense. If he really plays so transparently that you can get away from set-over-set then that makes 44 go up in value, not down.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

wtf wowowowowow... how can you possibly consider folding this?

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

[ QUOTE ]
wtf wowowowowow... how can you possibly consider folding this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Because given the action and the read, I think he has AA or KK the vast majority of the time.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

DCal, i'm not gonna rip into you and i'll give you a genuine response.

Its true that his line looks like extreme strength, in the form of AA,KK, or AK. Its also true that he should bet the flop with AK. Therefore, a lot of the time you are beat here. But you simply cannot fold this. We are only 100bbs deep. If you flop a set against only 1 opponent, i cannot imagine a scenario where we fold on the flop with 100bbs. Now, i know we made it all the way to the river, but we still can't get away from this. AK, AQ, even AJ, busted clubs, 22 are all possibilities.... but you're thinking completely the wrong way.

When you're in a situation like this, your line has to be, "how do i get the most amount of money", not, "what hands beat me". Your thought process is similar to someone who's in the middle of a downswing and has shaken confidence, or just plain simply playing scared. Never ever fold this or even contemplate it. Always think how to extract the most money.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

meh, i honestly don't like the fold but if you have a really good read. like alot of hands over a really really long session or over several sessions then maybe it's OK. but if this is just 200 hands or something it's a pretty bad fold.

he would have to be playing transparent as hell to over that decent sample...you know, like how really bad live players play.

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck (400NL)
 

nice laydown.

I can't understand how everyone just keeps saying "call you've got a set!", do you always call with a flush on a two-paired board just because you've got a flush?

I could probably make this laydown too to the right villain and I called a pot sized river bet yesterday (60BB) with K high so I'm not a nit.

I have a couple of opponents that I play with that have so narrow ranges that you can call a lot of 3bets and take away every single pot by 2nd or 3rd barelling if an ace hits the flop since their range for 3betting from the blinds are AA KK QQ JJ and never AK.

This is the other way around and if you think that his range is AA KK QQ JJ or AK for raising pf and you know that he would bet AK on the flop (especially since there is a flush draw out there)I think you played your hand almost perfectly (though you could have folded the turn).

Why call an overbet on the river if you think you're only good about 5-10% of the time?

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

u do suck

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

Do you think people here will think this is a good laydown? I don't think anyone can ever defend this play dcal =(

Re: I folded a set, everyone thinks I suck
 

good fold he has KK like 97% of the time and AA the other 4%.