Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Hey all,

I am struggling right now with what I'm sure anyone who is a rational and intelligent person struggles with at sometime in their life. Yeti touched on this in another thread about happiness but I want to take it a step further. Basically, it is dealing with the frustating consquences of this basic truth: that we are all (either subconsciously or consciously) trying to find meaning in our lives when existing is inherently meaningless and filled with arbitrary and essentially trivial day-to-day activities. I am looking less for a metadebate on the meaning of life and more for how people have dealt with their own search for meaning and purpose over the course of their lives who have far more experience than I do.

To give some background, I am 22 and by all measures have been very successful so far in life. Solid for money, good job, great girlfriend, etc. Life looks great. But I am just looking forward and thinking...'and then?'. So I move on after this job to a job that pays more, get married, buy a mortgage, get a better job, have kids, retire and in all that time find something to do that keeps me occupied until I die.

Part of this sudden realization I think is because I've rushed through so much of my life (skipped grades, rushed into gradschool) with the idea from my parents that life is some kind of race to the finish line and whoever is the most successful wins. I also come from a hyper-competitive family...all 3 of my siblings have or are getting PhDs from top schools in various fields, my parents both have advanced degrees, etc.

The other reason is I think I have satisfied my biological needs for the time-being (food, a place to live, love) and without those distractions (roaming bars every night looking for women, stressing out about financials) I have a lot more time to think about life.

Lately I've been questioning the whole and I've basically come to the conclusion that I can either completely refuse to participate in the rat race (become a bum, play poker, hang out all day, live the Dionysus style and just kind of do whatever), or give 100% (pursue an ambitious career, get an advanced degree, give it my best, become a world expert on some obscure international relations theory or manage someone's campaign or start a consulting firm) or just give it a good effort, put in the time at the 9-6 jobs but do it well and pursue other things that I find more interesting in whatever's left of my spare time. I'm leaning towards the latter right now.

I have a ton of distractions from this basic question. I have lots of great friends. I read tons...I'm on a current 19th Russian lit and existential philosophy kick (hmmm that could explain some things). I have poker, obviously (15 hrs a week on average). I just bought a sweet-ass music recording studio that I am going to fiddle around with and record my own music. I'm going to take a cooking course in the fall. I am trying to visit my friends more and spend time with them (I am going to DC this weekend to visit a buddy of mine). But I guess I am questioning...is life basically just this series of distractions until you die? Do we ever really find meaning in our lives or are we basically just using these things to take our mind off the fundamental issue...that our day-to-day lives tend to be filled with a lot of mundane, repetitive routine and that we are basically unnecessary?

I guess that is pretty depressing but in a way I think understanding this is very liberating and I'm looking for proactive solutions to deal with this realization.

Maybe I have just been reading too much existentialist literature. I am honestly a pretty upbeat person in general, good for a laugh, etc. but this has just been nagging at me for the last 6 months or so and I would like some help from EDF on this if you guys can provide it.

Cheers,
GW

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I think you will ultimately find a 'Dionysian' existance unfulfilling.

edit to add:
I also think you would not enjoy the 9-6 Office Space grind. You've got a great platform (poker) to launch an exploration into something that will interest and entertain you.

Also, remember you don't need to plan the rest of your life. If you've got something that interests you for 10 years, you can do quite a bit with it and then become an expert in something else.

I'd recommend you talk to an older person that you are friends with and find interesting (probably older than the typical 2+2 audience). See if you can find a role model.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I'm 27 and I doubt my experience or knowledge of life is much different from yours. I have spent some time thinking about this though, and I have some conclusions I'm currently happy with.

There is no benefit in worrying about whether there's any point in what you're doing. You can probably make a good guess as to what your life will be like in the future, but you can never have a good degree of accuracy. The future is inherently unpredictable. Our best laid plans will never play out, something will always come along that changes them.

I think it's a good idea to have only a very vague long term plan, not to get too concerned about the details and not invest much of myself in trying to reach something ten/twenty years down the line. The future is far too hazy.

All that really matters is now, and enjoying what you have now. To make a bad analogy: When you run good at poker, it's important to enjoy it because you're sure going to dislike it when you next run bad. Then when you win, enjoy spending the money, but don't sweat it when you don't have as much next time round.

I don't like some people's escape route from the problem - i.e, your first option. Becoming a hermit and dropping out of society is making a bad bet. It protects you against a couple of unlikely future events at the cost of harming you with all of the other possible and more likely futures.

So, my plan is to live my life in such a way that I maximise my enjoyment without jeapodising any of the important things I want to do in the near/medium future. I do not know what the world is going to be like in 25, 50, 75 years and I do not know what I will be like. Neither does anybody else, and anyone who claims otherwise is a fraud or has not thought it through properly. Worrying about where I'll be is fruitless.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Ive been struggling with this too a lot lately. Ive calmed down over the last 2 or 3 months, I dont go out too often, and am focusing on what I really want to do with my life. What I think makes me happy is the pursuit of being rich. I say what I "think" makes me happy because I dont know. Im a generally happy person, but Im not excited much anymore, when I was younger I used to get really excited abotu different things, now, not so much, it just seems like Im in a holding pattern. I honestly dont know if Im happy or what? My fear is that people are right when they say money cant buy you hapiness.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I don't know why it's depressing, it's very liberating to me. An life that exists only to fulfill some specific purpose isn't worth living. If Thomas Jefferson got one thing right, it was that life is about liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Buddha was right about the central problem of life: it is basically suffering. We scratch out our existence between these two issues, the ideals we all think should be and the crushing reality of just how painful everything actually is if you are paying attention.

We all project that in some future we will be happy, when we are making more money or banging hotter chicks or when we solve some philosophical question or when we find God's grace but it's all an illusion. This is all there is and unless we can learn to exist in the moment and stop living in the future and in the past we will continue to fluctuate endlessly through a series of distractions. Mundane, repetitive tasks will destroy your soul and leave a withering husk if you really want to be somewhere else, doing something else, anything else. If you really care about getting the dishes clean, or sweeping the floor then those activities ARE enlightenment, they ARE life, there isn't anything else.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

GW, When you write these posts it always sounds like you don't know/understand what you're all about. Some of that is figuring out what doesn't concern you and what you can ignore. Once you figure that out everything is easier.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
GW, When you write these posts it always sounds like you don't know/understand what you're all about. Some of that is figuring out what doesn't concern you and what you can ignore. Once you figure that out everything is easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much the best worst advice I've ever seen. Or maybe the worst best advice. I can't decide yet. Regardless, it's true.

Rob

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
GW, When you write these posts it always sounds like you don't know/understand what you're all about. Some of that is figuring out what doesn't concern you and what you can ignore. Once you figure that out everything is easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is pretty much the best worst advice I've ever seen. Or maybe the worst best advice. I can't decide yet. Regardless, it's true.

Rob

[/ QUOTE ]

If I understood myself 100% I wouldn't be asking this question because I would already know the answer. If I had a decent answer (or even a best-case compromise) I would stfu and go do it.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I am struggling with a lot of the same issues right now.

Before last year I spent 5 years perusing a PhD in Electrical Engineering. I created nanoscale elctronic devices and measured them at cryogenic temperatures. It sounds cool right? A year after graduating I am in a postdoctoral Fellowship. My adviser here is leaving and wants to pass the lab on to me. Yesterday I walked in and told her the I am resigning my position. I just don't like it and it is not what I want to do with my life.

10 years ago I wish I had just told my parents to shove it when they said I should persue Physics instead of business. That was the height of the Tech bubble (97-98) and they felt tech was a good long term career. I am good at science. I would learn to like it.

Now I have no idea what to do with myself. I am at a crossroads. I own a real estate investment business but it is not enough yet to replace my income. I want to find something that I can be passionate about. I spent so much time trying to get to the finish line that I never stopped to think about what I really want to do and find meaningful in life.

+EV

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

And maybe cut it out with the existential philosophy and read some Plotinus, Osho, Ken Wilber, or Thich Nhat Hanh. And do some yoga. And vipassana.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

-grunch-

It seems like you have a good mix of interests and you get something out of your work.

My advice:

Don't rush to the next thing. Or, at least, take time to enjoy the journey. We go on vacation in August, and my wife insists that we don't 'wish away' the rest of the summer by looking ahead to August.

Don't hesitate to try any positive thing that piques your interest. I think life IS about experiences and a full life is one full of different experiences. The last thing you want to do is to look back and say, Dammit, why didn't I do this or that.

Do work you enjoy and that rewards you, but don't get so emotionally involved with it that it affects your other facets of life. When I'm off work, I'm OFF work- I rarely think about it and I refuse to let it bleed into my family life or recreation.

My dad recently told me that he gets up every day and says 'this is MY day.' Even if it's a crappy day, you own it and you should try to make the most out of it.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

What really [censored] with my head, is the fact that unless I havent found my talent, there will be nothing in life, that I can say "Im the best at XXXXX", and this makes me not want to pursue any avenue where I can pretty much predict that I will never be world class. An example is golf, I love playing it, but everytime i practice etc, I think "wtf am I doing, what a waste of time, Im never going to be pro what is the point?".

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
What really [censored] with my head, is the fact that unless I havent found my talent, there will be nothing in life, that I can say "Im the best at XXXXX", and this makes me not want to pursue any avenue where I can pretty much predict that I will never be world class. An example is golf, I love playing it, but everytime i practice etc, I think "wtf am I doing, what a waste of time, Im never going to be pro what is the point?".

[/ QUOTE ]
It is impossible to be the best in the world at something. The people who we can agree are the best at something probably number under a hundred. For all intents and purposes, that's zero.

I have been very good at a couple of things (of minimal use in the real world, but for the record I've been #1 in a handful of computer games), and it's impossible to stay there. Nobody has done it for more than a few months, except perhaps one or two in specific games.

Trying to be #1 is pointless. Being the best you can is all that matters, so long as you derive enjoyment from the process or from being as good as you can be. Of course, it helps if that also makes you successful, but you're smart and will find a way to do that.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What really [censored] with my head, is the fact that unless I havent found my talent, there will be nothing in life, that I can say "Im the best at XXXXX", and this makes me not want to pursue any avenue where I can pretty much predict that I will never be world class. An example is golf, I love playing it, but everytime i practice etc, I think "wtf am I doing, what a waste of time, Im never going to be pro what is the point?".

[/ QUOTE ]
It is impossible to be the best in the world at something. The people who we can agree are the best at something probably number under a hundred. For all intents and purposes, that's zero.

I have been very good at a couple of things (of minimal use in the real world, but for the record I've been #1 in a handful of computer games), and it's impossible to stay there. Nobody has done it for more than a few months, except perhaps one or two in specific games.

Trying to be #1 is pointless. Being the best you can is all that matters, so long as you derive enjoyment from the process or from being as good as you can be. Of course, it helps if that also makes you successful, but you're smart and will find a way to do that.

[/ QUOTE ]

One counter to this point is just finding some totally obscure and pointless niche...like being the world expert on 12th century Turkish history or something. Academics do this -finding something ridiculously specialized and then devoting all your time and energy to being the best- all the time.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
GW, When you write these posts it always sounds like you don't know/understand what you're all about. Some of that is figuring out what doesn't concern you and what you can ignore. Once you figure that out everything is easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. However, I empathize with Gildwulf quite a bit. Identifying what it is that you want/what you're about is a pretty nontrivial task. I'm in the midst of some upheaval on that front. For a long time, like many nerds I harbored a desire to try and become a professor. It's become clear to me over the last year or two that I lack the requisite love and monomania to make the sacrifices that that will demand. I've yet to figure out what's going to come next, and I don't really have an idea about what I'd want, at least in that realm. (EDIT: In other words, stay out of grad school, kids.)

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Life is like poker. You only get a certain amount of time to act so just pick the best line and keep playing. Change if results haven't been so good, but at 22 your sample size is small, relax.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
I am struggling right now with what I'm sure anyone who is a rational and intelligent person struggles with at sometime in their life. Yeti touched on this in another thread about happiness but I want to take it a step further. Basically, it is dealing with the frustating consquences of this basic truth: that we are all (either subconsciously or consciously) trying to find meaning in our lives when existing is inherently meaningless and filled with arbitrary and essentially trivial day-to-day activities.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess my first comment is that I don't necessarily agree with your premise. I don't think everyone is consciously or subconsciously searching for meaning. Some people simply "are" and experience, and are content that way.

The concept is different yet similar to the idea in this poem-let by DH Lawrence:

"Self Pity"
I never saw a wild thing
sorry for itself.
A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough
without ever having felt sorry for itself.

We could write a similar poem:

"Search For Meaning"
I never saw a wild thing
search for meaning.
A giant tortoise might live 3 human lifetimes
and yet never once ask itself why it was here.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

i think this is called the human condition. i don't think you will find any answers, only distractions. people just keep distracting themselves until they die.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
Trying to be #1 is pointless. Being the best you can is all that matters

[/ QUOTE ]

Trying to be #1 with the intention of being #1 is pointless for most people. Trying to be #1 with the idea that it's the best vector to be the best you can be makes all kinds of sense.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
GW, When you write these posts it always sounds like you don't know/understand what you're all about. Some of that is figuring out what doesn't concern you and what you can ignore. Once you figure that out everything is easier.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this. However, I empathize with Gildwulf quite a bit. Identifying what it is that you want/what you're about is a pretty nontrivial task. I'm in the midst of some upheaval on that front. For a long time, like many nerds I harbored a desire to try and become a professor. It's become clear to me over the last year or two that I lack the requisite love and monomania to make the sacrifices that that will demand. I've yet to figure out what's going to come next, and I don't really have an idea about what I'd want, at least in that realm. (EDIT: In other words, stay out of grad school, kids.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but only a very very small percent of people are going to be lucky enough to have that thing that they pursue and that they really love. Everyone else seems stuck just jumping from one thing or another. I mean, maybe you find out that you love fixing cars or writing novels, but most likely you are never going to find a true calling.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Try to do lots of different things to keep your life interesting.

I'm easily bored, and this is what works for me.

Some part of me would really like to do "nothing" because I've never done it, but I know that I would get tired of it after a bit.

Of course when you do lots of different things, life can get too busy at times, but you should be talented enough to pull through.

You see these posts all of the time on here where people just aren't willing to do SOMETHING. People spend far too much time and energy thinking about doing something instead of just trying it. You can always cross the bridge of not liking something/moving on to something else after giving something a fair shake. You also build a good set of life experiences that way.

Don't let a fear of failure/discomfort cause you to chicken out about something else. Lots of people hide behind some other facade (usually intelligence and/or being lazy) which prevents them from doing things that are challenging. Be better than this.

Good luck,

The Sucker

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I've been wondering about similar things lately, I remembered from Yeti's thread that the scientists found the Buddhist monk's brains to be in constant state of "bliss", hearing that really got me thinking in various things like meaning of life, what true happiness is, etc.

Few months later I stumbled upon some books on Buddhism books at my cousins house and read a fascinating book about a guy that got his graduate degree in theology in Harvard that ended up becoming a monk in Korea, after hearing a sermon by then considered world's 4 live Buddhas, Zen master Seung-Sahn. The core of teaching was that really captured him was that these answers lie within our selves.

Now I'm in no position to offer any advices or answers to such questions, since I know very little about Buddhism my self, but I do feel that this book, "The Compass of Zen" by Zen master Seung-sahn might offer some guidance, or at very least be a short and interesting read on Buddhism if you had any interest on it.

I'm hoping to get closer to some answers during my stay at a temple-stay program since I'm in Korea now. Hopefully it'll be a worthwhile experience.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I know exactly how you feel Gildwulf.



I spend a lot of time thinking and reflecting about my life some time ago and found the answer to that question "and then?".


In order to answer that question to your satisfaction, you must come up with a life mission that is more than just you. More than just a good wife and kids, more than just a decent job.

Types like you need to be aiming for something more than just the standard norm, types like you need to be aiming for the stars or else you will NEVER be satisfied.



I can't give you what your life mission will be, but I can give you what mine is:

A few years ago I was in a state of unhappiness and depression. I didn't know what to do with my life and had no direction whatsoever. I truly believed that I was destined to be unhappy and depressed my whole life. I lived through that rediculous state of mind for 8 years. Yes, 8 years. Throughout those 8 years, I couldn't even count on my hands the amount of days I was truly happy. It was a dark dark time.

Fast forward to a few years ago, I picked up a book by Brian Tracy: Maximum Achievement. That book overnight turned me around 180 degrees completely. It felt like I was given a gift from the heavens to pull my way out of the darkness.


My mission in life is to give that hand from the heavens to whomever I can to return the favor I was so graciously given.

I am currently building a real estate business franchise model that I want to take continental wide as well as world wide. It is nearly an impossible task but it is what fuels me everyday to keep building it and building it.

Eventually my "and then?" answer to that question will be I want to help change the world person by person by changing the education being received by everyone in the world. I want every single child out there to grow up and learn some of the most important things a person needs to learn that is not taught in school:

Relationships
Self Improvement
Passion
Leadership
Money

and a host of other subjects. I want the most important subjects in life to be taught in school to HELP give that hand from the heavens to pull all these kids that are completely lost and give them a mission to their life.


You must dig deep inside yourself and find your own answer to that question. Whether you want to be the next Ghandi, American President, Philanthropist, or whatever you decide.


But one thing I know for sure: "And then?" can only be answered if your mission in life is bigger than yourself.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Allinlife ,

Please write about your temple experiences. I recently did a 10-day extremely intensive vipassana retreat and I am very interested in the effects of these longer periods of practice on others in formal settings. What kind of temple it is, daily life there, all would be very interesting to read about.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I skimmed through your OP, but I'd also recommend a book that I think is awesome. The Power Of Now, by Eckhart Tolle. It's all about living for the moment, and learning how every problem, antcipation and worriment over the past is just an illusion. It also talks about the seperation between the true self and the egoic state of mind that dominates your life and destroys truly experiencing life as it happens around you. Everything he says makes so much sense and is all really really simple as well.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Im about to go through the incredibly painful process of donating bone marrow. But Im willing to do it because I know it will help save someones life. The knowledge that I am making a personal sacrifice for someone else has added a tremendous amount of meaning to an otherwise mundane summer

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Hi Gild,

Read parts 1-5 of this comic. You might like it. I'd post them inline, but that might be a copyright no-no.
Here

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I'm pretty sure that the meaning of life is to ship it.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I can't recommend Viktor Frankl's "Man's Search for Meaning" enough for dealing with these kinds of questions.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

Gild if I were you at your age and doing as well as your doing...TRAVEL. forget all the mumbo jumbo psycho/religious/metaphysical babble

See the world man, and not just tourist spots etc...there are so many cool ways to do it that also help a good cause etc.

I wish I had done that more in my early 20s

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

GW,

If you haven't already, read The Dice Man.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

OP, I think you've hit on why a lot of smart people get tangled up with drugs. It's as much for the distraction as for the fun.

It sounds like you have your head screwed on really well for 22 and are on a great track in life.

I can offer this, from a 38-year old perspective, there are several things I can guarantee with 100% certainty will happen to you:

a) You will think "I was so young at 22 and didn't even realize it".

b) You will wish you had enjoyed life more while you were younger.

c) You will not regret any decision where you chose life experience over stability and/or comfort. Your biggest regrets may be where you chose the opposite.

d) In the blink of an eye it seems, you get to be my age. I know that's inconceivable to you right now. But yes, it actually happens. Right now the 30-year-old you is pretty much a mythical creature to the 22-year-old you. But the 30-year-old you will take the 40-year-old you a lot more seriously. If you can get a jump on this process, it could make your life a lot richer. Although I'm not sure it's possible. Probably one of those things that just has to be learned.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

I find it to be true that happiness is a choice.

It works for me, I'm very happy, and have been for a while. My attitude is pretty much, "I do what I want to and therefore I'm happy". Hope you can be happy as well.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

GW,

Obviously, you've hit on something that resonates with a lot of people. But, as KKF said, yeah, this is pretty much "the human condition."

I think that people who worry about figuring this stuff out instead of just doing stuff usually end up getting depressed and just digging mental holes to trap themselves in.

I find it much healthier to just do stuff and see what happens. Maybe everything is pointless and we never accomplish anything that is meaningful at any level beyond just killing some time. But maybe by doing stuff we can help ourselves and others and accomplish things that bring us a much higher level of satisfaction that we previously knew to be possible. But then again, maybe not. I mean, let's say I cure cancer (unlikely at this point). Well, then I die, and maybe there's nothing, and maybe all that has happened is I help other people prolong their meaningless lives. Or maybe by alleviating tons of pain from countless people, I have made the world a better place. Who the f knows about all this stuff? I sure don't, so I just keep doing stuff that I feel is interesting and at some level accomplishes SOMETHING, then I see which of those things I feel like are worth doing more of.

I dunno, obv I'm rambling here, but hopefully you get some part of my point.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

i always find these sorts of threads interesting,but i can't really relate to them at all,for some reason this stuff just doesn't bother me.

every day i wake up in a room full of books,music and dvds that i am interested in,with access to as many more as i want through the internet. if i want a break from this i have a large group of interesting friends to hang out with.

if i lived to be a thousand i would still die with books left to read,cities left to visit,films i never got around to seeing,etc.

as far as i am concerned knowing that is more than enough to keep me happy for the rest of my life on a "fulfillment" level.(obviously i will also need to find happiness in my personal life as well,but that doesn't seem to be what gildwulf is getting at since he already has that.)

i don't really feel the need to achieve anything in the conventional sense of the word,i suppose i am lucky in that respect,since i can just pursue my interests without having to worry about the meaning of it all.

i suppose on some level i get the sense of fulfillment that some people get from achievement or religion or whatever from my interests,in that when i am immersed in music that i love or a great film or walking down the streets of an unfamiliar city i get such a sense of happiness that it almost seems spiritual/transcendental,even though i have no actual spiritual beliefs.

the fact that i will never run out of things which fascinate/move me to this point is what its all about,the way i see it.

maybe some people don't get such a visceral reaction from their interests,but i get such pleasure out of a beautiful piece of music or a great painting or even a really great joke that i don't feel the need for anything beyond that,and i can't fully understand those who do.

another thing to realise is that those of us who are living middle class lives in the first world at this point in time are among the luckiest people ever to have lived,and i feel we should take advantage of that.

i mean the vast majority of the human race didn't have time to worry about what it all meant,their lives were a constant struggle.this is still the case for most people today.

the fact that i can play a game in my own time for several hundred dollars an hour with relatively little effort is merely the icing on the cake,but its worth thinking about just how lucky many of us are,and taking advantage of the amazing opportunity we have to pursue our interests and passions with the people we care about. that alone is more than enough "meaning" for me.

And then... the next thing
 

The truth is right in front of you and several people have intimated as much. The hard part isn't finding meaning in life, it's accepting what you fear is true.

But there is nothing to be afraid of... once you accept it, it stops being scary.

When tying your shoe, the meaning of life is tying your shoe. When you are finished and you find yourself wondering "and then?" you should laugh at your folly. For it should be quite clear that the next step is to tie your other shoe.

Once you understand that your life is happening all around you, all at once, you will realize that this is true for everyone. That is the moment you come to understand compassion. From that moment on compassion will guide your interactions with everyone around you and you will not be able to keep yourself from smiling.

Irieguy

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

[ QUOTE ]
Gild if I were you at your age and doing as well as your doing...TRAVEL. forget all the mumbo jumbo psycho/religious/metaphysical babble

[/ QUOTE ]
As one of the chief metaphysical babblers around here, I couldn't agree more.

Re: Dealing with the \'and then?\' problem
 

re: book recommendations,

I have a v long reading list but I'll add whatever is mentioned in this thread to the list.

re: danny and happiness is a choice,

mehhhh I dunno about this one. I'll expand on it later when I have some time but imo freedom of choice (I can do whatever I want) does not equate with happiness and if anything the more choice we have the less happy we truly are (see this book). Finding out what I actually want to do in a world full of limitless choice is incredibly scary and confusing and basically not a happy thing to think about. Yea that makes me spoiled because of all the people who are less fortunate and would kill for the choices we all take for granted but it doesn't make it any less confusing or scary.

re: diablo and kkf and amplify and irie et al...some good solid advice that I will try and take to heart.

re: the travel comments...

I actually have a pretty good short-term plan for travelling, I think that will address a lot of my concerns. I'm probably going to work at my job and do the best I can until next May or so, saving up craploads of money in the process and enjoying vacations whenever I can. Then I'm either going to take a leave of absence or maybe quit my job. I'll take a few months off and play poker full-time to see what it's like. My gf gets out of her job contract in June so afterwards we will travel until she runs out of money (probably two months) to either Asia or Latin America.

I will sort of take it from there but this is my best-case compromise on dealing with everything and testing the waters on a lot of different lifestyles (9-6 lifestyle, pro poker lifestyle, travelling the world) and gaining a lot of world experience. Who knows, if I like travelling I have a ton of money saved up so we might travel for even longer and my gf can get a job or something.

Thanks for all the interesting comments so far, guys. It is good to hear from people with a lot more life experience.

Re: And then... the next thing
 

[ QUOTE ]
The truth is right in front of you and several people have intimated as much. The hard part isn't finding meaning in life, it's accepting what you fear is true.

But there is nothing to be afraid of... once you accept it, it stops being scary.

When tying your shoe, the meaning of life is tying your shoe. When you are finished and you find yourself wondering "and then?" you should laugh at your folly. For it should be quite clear that the next step is to tie your other shoe.

Once you understand that your life is happening all around you, all at once, you will realize that this is true for everyone. That is the moment you come to understand compassion. From that moment on compassion will guide your interactions with everyone around you and you will not be able to keep yourself from smiling.

Irieguy

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a pretty good post.

As a 30 year old, the possibility that 'life' has no meaning bothers me about 98% less than it did at 22. Because I guess I've realized that even though there may not be a "meaning of life", life is not meaningless. I know that sounds tautological, but I don't think it is. You are what you do, and I don't mean do in terms of a job, but in terms of everything.

And everything you do can only be judged within the framework of that activity. I'm a lawyer, so by and large my professional works are judged by, well, judges. Trying to find purpose extrinsic to that is both pointless and probably counterproductive on many levels.

Re: And then... the next thing
 

Irie,

"When tying your shoe, the meaning of life is tying your shoe."

I feel like that could be in a fortune cookie, but then it would send me into a rage yelling "GODDAMMIT THAT IS JUST A F'ING APHORISM, NOT A FORTUNE U F'ING FALSE ADVERTISING NON-FORTUNE-HAVING COOKIE DECEPTIVE MOTHERF'ER!"