NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

Villain is 18/6/2, atsb 20%. Haven't played with him much but he seems unremarkable.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $2/$4 Blinds - 8 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $447.75
BB: $456.50
Hero (UTG): $398.00
UTG+1: $150.00
MP1: $597.80
MP2: $393.00
CO: $577.60
BTN: $681.20

Preflop: Hero is dealt A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (8 Players)
Hero calls $4.00, 4 folds, <font color="red">BTN raises to $18.00</font>, 2 folds, Hero calls $14.00

Flop: ($42) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, <font color="red">BTN bets $32.00</font>, Hero?

Call or raise?

If you call, what is plan for turn?

If you raise, how much? Plan for turn?

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

Raise to like 88, get it in. Your kickin the crap out of his 'raise limper from button and fire standard c-bet' range.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

First, I don't like the limp, but maybe that's just me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Then when he raises -if- you limped, I like a healthy reraise. But moving on...

Raise. 2/3 pot bet is a typical cont. bet in this spot, or he could have KQ, flush draw, etc. All a call does is say, wow, am I ahead in the hand or not. If you call, what do you do on the turn assuming a blank? How about a diamond? I like gathering info and taking the lead in the hand. Throw in a healthy reraise here. He'll tell you right away how strong he is. Being a 6, mostly likely on AA, AK, or 1010-QQ. Maybe KQ on button, but a raise will let you know. Amount? Almost doesn't matter, just not a mini-reraise.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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I like gathering info and taking the lead in the hand. Throw in a healthy reraise here. He'll tell you right away how strong he is.

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A raise here is not "for information." It is for straight value, pure and simple.

I'd raise to like $100 and call a shove.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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First, I don't like the limp, but maybe that's just me. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Then when he raises -if- you limped, I like a healthy reraise. But moving on...


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I would have limp/rr if there a raise and any other callers but since it came down to HU I thought going for deception would be more +ev.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

raising is so gross once you've gotten to this spot... you are very rarely ahead when the money goes in here, especially considering the guy is somewhat tight/passive

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

I guess you limped as a slow play so go with the plan and raise him big, really hate your limp though. if you limp/raise that would be one think but limp call is only good when you are playing vs donkeys and calling stations in lp

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

Hmm, I missed villain's stats for some reason.

18/6 does seem pretty passive. He probably isn't raising many hands that could semi-bluff the flop. With that I change me vote to "call."

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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raising is so gross once you've gotten to this spot... you are very rarely ahead when the money goes in here, especially considering the guy is somewhat tight/passive

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But since he is passive I think he will often just overlimp 44 and maybe 99 too. There aren't any other hands to worry about on this board, and you never know - he might get frisky with a FD or KQ...

Anyway if you think calling is best what is the plan for the turn?

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

raise $150
push any non-diamond turn


I would've donked the flop

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

i never limp. but as played i call here, then check/raise all in on turn. if that wiffs i check/call river.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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But since he is passive I think he will often just overlimp 44 and maybe 99 too. There aren't any other hands to worry about on this board, and you never know - he might get frisky with a FD or KQ...

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If the range that he gives you action with is AA,KK,AK,KQ then you have 55% equity... and I think it's pretty generous to fully count KQ both in his preflop range, and also in the range that he stacks off with.

A flush draw is also pretty unlikely... if he has AQs or AJs then you are a decent favorite, but against AKs he's frerolling you, and non-nut flush draws have extra outs either via gutshot, or because they have a K... which means you're basically even money against them.

Much of his range is TT-QQ which is drawing slim and will possibly pay off some money if you do it slowly but not if you just bomb the pot. KQ probably will get a bet in on each street but won't go broke, so why let him get away cheap.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

I raise this like its no bodies business, Hell ussually call with a wide range any maybe push a draw and hell put you on a draw of a set or total bs. Your hand is underrepped so if hes decent hell put you on a draw off the bat. I probaly check the turn to him if called and hopefully push if he bets.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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Raise to like 88, get it in. Your kickin the crap out of his 'raise limper from button and fire standard c-bet' range.

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Semi-grunch as this is the only response I read, but I agree completely. You're behind 44, 99, KK. I'm playing like I have the nuts and am trying to get it in on this flop. I don't want to see another card.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

Well, I don't have experience limping AKs UTG, but...

I kinda like a call here. If he's at all a thinking player, the UTG limp/call sticks out. If you check/raise, I can't imagine him calling with a worse hand. He'll figure you flopped your set and are charging a draw. Hell, he might even think you have AA. I just don't see much else calling. So, I might consider check/calling the flop and turn, and donking the river to try to get max value. I also don't see anything wrong with just a c/r here like everyone else has seemed to suggest. I think you'll win the pot with this a vast majority of the time - if you do c/r and he pushes, I'd really consider folding.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

If u wanted to play "weird" and find yourself limping UTG, I really think u should reraise this button raiser. Otherwise, this specific situation, your hand looks like a set. I would like to hope villain had AA but i doubt it heh.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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I would have limp/rr if there a raise and any other callers but since it came down to HU I thought going for deception would be more +ev.

[/ QUOTE ]The problem here is that you've got a very awkward pot for your hand. I don't think villain is going to ever put $352 more into a $42 pot with a hand worse than AK. Because of this I think we want to keep the pot small and keep from getting all of our chips committed, because those times we do I don't think we'll be getting the best of it (which is not to say you aren't likely ahead- just that those few times you actually successfully get the chips in the middle you probably won't be).

Thus, your best bet is to call here, check/call the turn, and c/c the river or bet it for value if he checks behind on the turn.

If you had l/r PF, however, you would have a bigger pot and could probably get villain committed more easily with a weaker hand.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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i never limp. but as played i call here, then check/raise all in on turn. if that wiffs i check/call river.

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Yeah, I like this line as well.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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Thus, your best bet is to call here, check/call the turn, and c/c the river or bet it for value if he checks behind on the turn.

If you had l/r PF, however, you would have a bigger pot and could probably get villain committed more easily with a weaker hand.

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I agree here. I think that we don't have to be greedy. As other people stated, I would RR pf. As played, why are we afraid of a diamond? As a thinking player, when he sees that you limp called, and check called the flop, he'll include a flush draw as a big part of your range. In this case, he'll probably check behind on a diamond turn or bet turn to see where he's at, then check behind on river being afraid of the flush. So it'd do what Jeff76 suggests and cc turn and river, and maybe value bet river if turn is checked behind.

I'd let him overplay his KQ here and just let him do the betting. In addition, if we play it this way, we can maybe get an extra bet by 1010/JJ/QQ on the turn, who put us on a FD. If we CR flop, we are letting these hands get away cheap.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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I also don't see anything wrong with just a c/r here like everyone else has seemed to suggest. I think you'll win the pot with this a vast majority of the time - if you do c/r and he pushes, I'd really consider folding.

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the fact that you'll take the pot down most of the time IS something wrong with checkraising when you're in a WA/WB spot.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

just c/c/c/c/c/c

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

a hand where I limp-called AKs and flopped a king

results of my hand since I never posted them in that thread (in white): <font color="white">He had AQ.</font>

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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I would have limp/rr if there a raise and any other callers but since it came down to HU I thought going for deception would be more +ev.

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No, limp rr is more plus ev by a sight. If villain is reasonable post flop he can easily out play you with position and initiative.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

also, unless you are trying to add balance to a strategy that includes excessive preflop limping (ie autolimping 22-88 and all suited connectors utg), i see no reason to make preflop plays like this ever.

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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also, unless you are trying to add balance to a strategy that includes excessive preflop limping (ie autolimping 22-88 and all suited connectors utg), i see no reason to make preflop plays like this ever.

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that is in fact what i am doing.

edit: not that i limp excessively but i do limp utg and utg+1 with a pretty wide range

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

Check/call to the river is best. You have nice showdown value and probably shouldn't allow the villain to play perfectly by A) blowing him out of the water or B) hanging yourself.

This is the best flop you could reasonably expect -- why mess with the deception you already started?

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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just c/c/c/c/c/c

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I like this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Especially on a dry flop

Re: NL 400: For some reason I decide to play weird....
 

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just c/c/c/c/c/c

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I like this [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Especially on a dry flop

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this line is prob best if you are balance your play with this weird preflop line