TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

.5/1 4 players
UTG is 69.91/14.6/.75. His stats pretty much tell the story.
Don't have much on BTN, seems loose and kinda passive.
BB is 21.85/11.26/2.73, can't recall him doing anything out of line.

Hero is in SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Preflop: UTG calls, BTN calls, Hero calls, BB raises, everyone calls.

Flop (8 SB): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 players
Hero checks, BB bets, UTG calls, BTN calls, Hero calls.

Turn (6 BB): 6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4 players
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG folds, BTN calls, Hero calls.

I donked the turn because if BB had AK or something, I didn't want to risk the street getting checked through. Not really sure about that reasoning.

River (12 BB): 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, BTN bets, Hero?

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

I would call hoping no one had a four

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

Hero calls the river. I donk the turn as well for the same reason of not wanting it to be check through. However, with BB raising again, I think that skews his range to one of three hands: pocket pairs bigger than 66 likely 88/99 or higher, AJ/KJ, or two big spades that he's semi-bluffing. With it being weighted more towards the first two. You aren't ahead of JJ+, but are ahead of the AJ/KJ and smaller pocket pairs.

I think that since you were raised and then called that raise on the turn, it's because you think you're ahead often enough to take this to showdown (you don't have odds for a 4 outer), unless perhaps an ace comes on the river. Button calling may not be a good thing, but if he's loose, he could have a lot of hands that are behind you.

On the river, BB seems to give up, so I'm no longer concerned about him. A passive Button betting is somewhat scary, but you and BB both did show weakness, so he may have Jx here in additon to a lot of other hands. But if you called the turn wanting to take it to showdown for one bet, you're still getting that chance, so I'd call and take it. With Button being passive, and BB probably actually having a weak hand, I don't want to raise, although if 3-bet, I think you have an easy fold.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

I would fold the flop as played: on guy bets on this flop and gets two callers. Just give up (RIO).

Another possible line is donking this flop and then evaluating what the do next, depening on the action.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

flop hero leads for value. this jams up any cbet from a missed AQ/AK/AT that sort of thing and any raise from opponents behind you gives you a feel for where you're at.

turn is a bet/call, river is a check/call

if button is that passive then you just got slowplayed, make a note and move on

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

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I would fold the flop as played: on guy bets on this flop and gets two callers. Just give up (RIO).

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No way. This is not an RIO situation. You're getting 11:1 here and you have top pair, a possible winner.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

Nice post NIX

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
Hero calls the river. I donk the turn as well for the same reason of not wanting it to be check through. However, with BB raising again, I think that skews his range to one of three hands: pocket pairs bigger than 66 likely 88/99 or higher, AJ/KJ, or two big spades that he's semi-bluffing. With it being weighted more towards the first two. You aren't ahead of JJ+, but are ahead of the AJ/KJ and smaller pocket pairs.

I think that since you were raised and then called that raise on the turn, it's because you think you're ahead often enough to take this to showdown (you don't have odds for a 4 outer), unless perhaps an ace comes on the river. Button calling may not be a good thing, but if he's loose, he could have a lot of hands that are behind you.

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Yeah, I think that the play after BB raises the turn is the crucial point in this hand. I don't think he's semi-bluffing, the question is how often is this 88-TT and possibly AJs versus how often is this JJ+. I didn't have a specific read to suggest he would be unlikely to raise with an underpair and I was multi-tabling so called and hoped for the best. As it turns out BB had QQ, BTN had J9o. I don't think I could have folded the river though. Nice analysis Nix.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

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I would call hoping no one had a four

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I don't think a 4 is something we should be particularly worried about. BB's range has no 4s, and if BTN had one, we'd probably have heard it about on the turn.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would fold the flop as played: on guy bets on this flop and gets two callers. Just give up (RIO).

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No way. This is not an RIO situation. You're getting 11:1 here and you have top pair, a possible winner.

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This is certainly an RIO situation, but the pot odds are indeed quite good so you could argue that a call on the flop is right.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

I don't mind the turn donk, nor the call. You're getting about the right odds for a four-outer, plus the times BB shows up with 99/TT/Jx/spades. River call looks good. If button is loose/passive, his line looks like a jack. Don't discount a four, but I think it's a jack pretty often.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

I would have led the flop with the possible best hand. If the BB raised, I would have called to see if my hand improved on the turn.

I would have led the turn, and 3-bet the BB (pf raiser) if he raised, as I would consider that I was probably ahead of his likely range.

If UTG or the button raised my turn bet, I would have called to see if I improved to a boat.

If no one other than the BB had shown any resistance, I would have bet the river.

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

nerdking,

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flop hero leads for value. this jams up any cbet from a missed AQ/AK/AT that sort of thing

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Uh, this is the exact opposite of what you want to do. Also, I'm a borderline ABC nit and I'm raising ace-high on this flop a non-negligible % of the time so any info you get from a bet is suspect.

Fantam,

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I would have led the flop with the possible best hand. If the BB raised, I would have called to see if my hand improved on the turn.

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You're a 2-outer if behind unless he has Jx

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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I would fold the flop as played: on guy bets on this flop and gets two callers. Just give up (RIO).

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No way. This is not an RIO situation. You're getting 11:1 here and you have top pair, a possible winner.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is certainly an RIO situation, but the pot odds are indeed quite good so you could argue that a call on the flop is right.

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contradiction?

Re: TP on prd flop (short handed)
 

No, it's not a contradiction. RIO means you stand to lose money on later rounds. However, if the pot is big enough you may stand to lose more by surrendering your current equity in the pot.